30-60 Hand

[skp]

No way should you be checking the turn as often as you suggest. All Clark did was to call the flop after having raised preflop from a late position. He could easily be calling the flop with a hand worse than mine. Further, at times, he may be willing to fold a hand on the turn that is better than mine eg. a small pocket pair or something.

I would bet the turn a high percentage of the time. If raised, I am then put to the test and I have already said that the default response is to then fold. Don't forget that it is not easy for Clark to smoothcall the flop with the intention of raising me on the turn with a hand worse than mine (given my actions on the hand to date).

Bottom line: You certainly do need to take notice if you get raised on the turn. But I wouldn't pay so much stock on just being called on the flop to make checkfolding the turn the default play.

Your comments about varying your play on the flop and turn are of course bang on.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
If an A comes on the river, I would check and call. If a Q comes I would bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

please explain why you take this line. i would check and RAISE the river to an aggressive player. but against clark, who would read that, its difficult to tell what i'd do. i'd bet sometimes and check others, depending on what he did on the turn. if he raised and i called and the ace fell he'd have to call with anything he'd raise with on the turn (other than bluff / semibluff which are also possible) if he wishes to win the pot. after all that he's not getting a free showdown if an a hits. a QUEEN however i'd be a little more likely to check and raise because its NOT that necessary i have a queen. i can have aj, ak, whereas an ace is in all or almost all of m preflop 3bet hands that make it this far and arenot already totally killing clark.

-Barron

[Robk]

[ QUOTE ]
am I the only one who bets the turn virtually all the time in the SB's shoes?

[/ QUOTE ]

No

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't forget that it is not easy for Clark to smoothcall the flop with the intention of raising me on the turn with a hand worse than mine (given my actions on the hand to date).

[/ QUOTE ]

Why isn't it easy? Suppose that Clark knows that I either have AA or AK. Suppose that he knows that I'll always bet the turn. Suppose he knows that I'll always fold to his turn raise with AK when a blank comes off and 3-bet when I have AA. His play would be majorly +EV.

[Analyst]

[ QUOTE ]
QJs.

Check-call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like it when I come up with the same answer as an andyfox!

[skp]

Well, that's why I say that folding is the default play. It's not the only play. You of course should adjust if you believe that is what Clark is doing.

And how many players do you know who call the flop with a view to raising on the turn no matter what when faced with an opponent who has raised or bet on every opportunity presented to him on the three streets. It is indeed hard (and foolhardy) to do in practice particularly on a regular basis.

[tolbiny]

"I don't follow your reasoning. First of all I have not played the hand weakly. I have re-raised preflop, bet the flop and bet the turn."

Alrighti exagerated when i said you had played it to weakly- however it is generally a consenes that three betting preflop and betteing the flop are the way to go, what is going to distinguish your range of hands here is the paly on the turn. You bet and he raises- if you fold here with AQ do you fold here with AK? If you end up doing this then you will end up like me and be labled as "a player i can safely fold to a turn three bet with". I think you have to reraise the turn somewhere between 10-15% of the time with AQo. In a pot with 7.5 BB's in it taking it down against A5, or 66 is quite valuable. If he wont ever fold these then you get the extra action on the bigger hands when you are ahead and pick up two more bets with them (when he calls the river).

I personally dont like calling the raise because i kow i am getting bet into on the river- probably because i wouldnt know what to do unless an A or a Q fell.

[mike l.]

"I'll initially fold if you raise me on the turn, but if it seems to be happening too often (say, more than once every 3 times), I will work in a 3-bet sometime to see what happens then. If this wins me the pot, then our duel has ascended to the next level until you 4-bet or call me down with a scraggly pair, at which point we're back where we started from."

which is putting in tons of big bets with nothing or close to nothing heads up out of position against fellow expert players. yeah, great plan coilean.

[Bartholow]

[ QUOTE ]
If you end up doing this then you will end up like me and be labled as "a player i can safely fold to a turn three bet with".

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There are a lot of players against whom I can safely fold a small pair on the turn if they three bet me. Doesn't make them weak, trust me.

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
And how many players do you know who call the flop with a view to raising on the turn no matter what when faced with an opponent who has raised or bet on every opportunity presented to him on the three streets. It is indeed hard (and foolhardy) to do in practice particularly on a regular basis.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gus Hansen?

Of course you wouldn't make the play regularly. But this is the perfect opportunity for it. You have a board with no card higher than a T and an opponent who would 3-bet with a very narrow range of hands before the flop. The fact that it's a raggedy board helps you since he'll have trouble putting you on a semibluff. On top of that, he's probably a little bit scared of you. You've probably spanked him around a fair bit in the past.

And you *don't* plan to raise the turn no matter what; you plan to raise only if a blank hits, or a card comes that improves your hand (though in the latter case, there's a good argument for calling again against a loose agg postflop player).