Maybe I need some help

kiemo · #1 10-11-2005, 10:14 PM

First off, bear with me here Wookie, I know you dont like these kinda threads, but I need some help I think.

This is my last month of play.

In the last 2 weeks I have posted up my six worst sessions loss wise over 287 session spanning almost a year of play. This all was culminated last night where Party royally kicked my butt to the tune of 65bb.

Prior to 9-9-05 I had 11k hands at 1/2 for 3.5 BB/100 and 30k hands at .5/1 for a bit over 4bb/100, so I think I have a decent knowledge of what I am doing. My numbers for the first 11k were almost identical to the above numbers (except the W$SD which was 8% higher), so my game has not dramatically changed. Also my preflop numbers are a bit low for this forum, but they are in my comfort zone.

Now the downswing in and of itself is probably not a big thing, as others here have done the same thing and gone on even bigger downswings, but am I worried. Maybe I just ran very well for the first 10k hands and I really shouldnt be playing at 1/2. Maybe the downswing is affecting me mentally without my knowledge, ie I am tilt before I even sit at a table. That is the biggest worry I have, as I dont feel like I am tilting - but how do I determine that?.

Rather then post bad beat hands over and over again, I was wondering if a few posters could take a gander at my sessions from last night (little less then 300 hands) and tell me what they see as I dont think I am looking at them with a clear head anymore.

Hand history. See if some of you can spot things that I am missing. Pick out a hand you find interesting or badly played and post it up (there are a few hands in there where I will admit were tilt hands), or just send me a PM.

milesdyson · #2 10-11-2005, 10:17 PM

13.78/7.70 <------------------ your problem. also i quickly went through your hands and found this one.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 8 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (14 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero folds ...

bozlax · #3 10-11-2005, 10:30 PM

Aiiiieeeee! My eyes! I'm blind! 16:1 with a gutshot to the nuts on the flop and you folded?!

kiemo · #4 10-11-2005, 11:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
13.78/7.70 <------------------ your problem. also i quickly went through your hands and found this one.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 8 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (14 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero folds ...

[/ QUOTE ]

As you and lautzutao pointed out this might be a leak, but I generally will fold this everytime on a 2 suited coordinated board with a raiser and a caller and 4 more to act behind me. Also as Aaron pointed out, I dont call alot. I either raise or fold and this looks to me like a terrible hand continue, I am more inclined to play on without the 2 spades though.

A call might seem correct here getting 16-1, but I got 4 people still to act and I dont want to pay any more for what I count as a about a 5 outer and a raise here doesnt do much good as I am not getting made hands or drawing hands to fold. Or am I way overanalyzing this? 5 outs is 4-1 to hit by river, or 11-1 to hit on turn. Getting 16-1 and probably higher implied odd is this an immediate call?

Appreciate the look you gave..

RatFink · #5 10-12-2005, 12:06 AM

Reread some of the post-flop sections of SSHE. You really do want to continue in this hand. You will probably re-evaluate on the turn, but at this point with 16:1 you would continue with a heck of a lot less than two overs + a gutshot

bozlax · #6 10-12-2005, 12:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
...am I way overanalyzing this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, yeeeeeaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh! Not just over-analyzing, but also a serious case of MUBS. No, you shouldn't raise, because you either want as many bets going in as possible OR you want to win the pot right there, and you're not going to fold out 6 hands on this flop.

On the other hand, a flush draw here is only a little over twice as likely as your gutshot to come in, so as long as you've got 3 other players putting money into this pot, you have value in playing against one or more flush draws WITHOUT ANY MONEY IN THE POT. Then throw in the potential that you're not up against a two-card flush draw but instead you're up against Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and your overcards play, and all of a sudden you're sitting in a puddle of your own happiness as you play the hand.

SomethingClever · #7 10-12-2005, 04:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
13.78/7.70 <------------------ your problem. also i quickly went through your hands and found this one.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 8 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (14 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero folds ...

[/ QUOTE ]

As you and lautzutao pointed out this might be a leak, but I generally will fold this everytime on a 2 suited coordinated board with a raiser and a caller and 4 more to act behind me. Also as Aaron pointed out, I dont call alot. I either raise or fold and this looks to me like a terrible hand continue, I am more inclined to play on without the 2 spades though.

A call might seem correct here getting 16-1, but I got 4 people still to act and I dont want to pay any more for what I count as a about a 5 outer and a raise here doesnt do much good as I am not getting made hands or drawing hands to fold. Or am I way overanalyzing this? 5 outs is 4-1 to hit by river, or 11-1 to hit on turn. Getting 16-1 and probably higher implied odd is this an immediate call?

Appreciate the look you gave..

[/ QUOTE ]

Good lord, this is a must call, if not raise.

Yerma · #8 10-13-2005, 10:18 PM

You are absolutely right to stop for a second, look at the board, and consider this an exception to auto-pilot. The advice you have been getting here so far is auto-pilot advice and it's very shallow.

Now, you should expect that given the preflop action, the number of players who have not yet "spoken" on the flop, and the nature of the board, that someone is going to raise. There is also the significant threat of it going more than 2-bets on the flop. You have to take these threats seriously when you are drawing. Now, given the size of the pot, you could call a single raise cold on this flop, but not a double raise. That suggests to me that calling a bet here, and then calling a raise is better than folding. Your policy, then, should also include calling a bet and (probably) folding if you have to call 2+ more cold.

Overall, I consider it a good sign that you are capable of folding here because you applied some foresight in the hand rather than just calculating pot odds.

RatFink · #9 10-11-2005, 10:33 PM

You play a small range of hands, and because of that if you suffer even a slightly higher than normal suckout % you can't make it up.

bozlax · #10 10-11-2005, 10:50 PM

I found this tidbit:

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 raises, MP2 calls, 5 folds (including Hero).

MP1 was 31/12 (not really a significant number of hands, but you should be able to see what he is pretty quickly), MP2 was 77/17 preflop (over 100 hands). You've GOT to give yourself a chance to outplay the donks postflop with a strong preflop hand.

"If you can't spot the donator at the table, it's probably you."