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#41
11-08-2005, 03:29 PM
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Re: D\'Agostino\'s short-handed advice
[ QUOTE ]
I think his remarks plainly implied that A9 was the outer range of what someone should 3-bet with from the sb, and I doubt that most people here would recommend that even for beginners. [/ QUOTE ] Why not [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]? I'm missing where the problem is. 
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#42
11-08-2005, 03:48 PM
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Re: D\'Agostino\'s short-handed advice
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] If that style is manaical for 3-handed and 4-handed, then I'm certifiably insane. Which may be the case. "Something as modest as A9 might qualify" for 3-betting in the SB after a button raise in a 3-handed game?! [/ QUOTE ] opening 67% of your button hands IS insane. [/ QUOTE ] No, it's not. Search the archives for a thread with JV and Sucker about straddling the button 3-handed. [/ QUOTE ] i modified my statement later, but... don't you get to act last preflop if you straddle? im not entirely sure of the dynamics
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#44
11-09-2005, 01:18 PM
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Re: D\'Agostino\'s short-handed advice
[ QUOTE ]
I disagree with this. Sure, you have to play back, but who says you have to play back preflop?? You've got 3 more streets to "play back." Just calling with strong hands preflop is wise in a lot of situations [/ QUOTE ] What u are saying is that "in a lot of situations" its wise to slowplay preflop when we are headsup because we will win back more postflop then we loose preflop. When we are out of position this statement is almost always wrong. When we got position it is normally wrong. I never read a pokerbook that says its bad to 3bet from big blind because "it tends to announce my hand" or a pokerbook that says its wise to only call with a better hand preflop "in a lot of situations". Which books are u guys thinking about when u say its often good to only call with a good hand preflop in a blindbattlesituation? If I see a player that pretty often only calls with great hands preflop it means one of two things: 1) He is weak and wants to see flop before attacking because "so much can happen when we see the flop". 2) He is "tricky", he gets a kick out of making a fool of the others instead of getting the money in when he got the edge and leave with the $.
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#45
11-09-2005, 02:39 PM
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if you disagree with him, you are a shorthanded fish.
This is exactly how good players (including myself) play high stakes shorthanded. A hand like 45o, and 610s are usually 100% raisable on the button.
If the table is very tight I will start raising worse hands. Also, this guy is one of the few famous players I played with who actually plays limit HU very well. -Eugene
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#46
11-09-2005, 02:52 PM
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Re: if you disagree with him, you are a shorthanded fish.
[ QUOTE ]
This is exactly how good players (including myself) play high stakes shorthanded. [/ QUOTE ] Do you feel that the strategy he outlines makes as much sense at low limits? If not, how would you modify it?
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#47
11-09-2005, 03:57 PM
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Re: D\'Agostino\'s short-handed advice
I think D'agastino gives pretty solid advice in this article. I do disagree on the "rarely 3 bet from the bb" philosophy. I think you give up too much EV by doing so to a player w/D'agastino's raising standards OTB.
When he talks about playing from the button he stats that its important to raise b/c if person calls w/a marginal hand in the bb it will be hard for him to call a flop w/out a QT. By not 3 betting, we leave ourselves wide open to throwing away more marginal hands on a flop we miss. This gives too much advantage to the button. Against an opponent like this, an optimal stratagy might be to 3 bet w/some good hands like AQ, AK, AJ, KQ as well as the more marginal ones like A8o and QTs. In addition to this calling w/strong hands like AA or KK as well as the more marginal hands like T9o, J9s might be a more effective stratagy of mixing up your play. By 3 betting a decent amount from the BB, you do not let someone who raises so often take free shots at your blind or check behind on a flop when you try to check raise. If you don't 3 bet, button will likely steal w/more and more hands and just start checking behind on a lot of flops b/c he will be wary of a c/r. He stats that concept of aggression and control is important in SH play and this should apply to BB play as well as button.
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#48
11-09-2005, 06:53 PM
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Re: if you disagree with him, you are a shorthanded fish.
[ QUOTE ]
This is exactly how good players (including myself) play high stakes shorthanded. A hand like 45o, and 610s are usually 100% raisable on the button. If the table is very tight I will start raising worse hands. [/ QUOTE ] Is this a comment to my post? Are u agreeing that u only call a lot in BB and not 3bet because it will give your hand away? If u call button in BB u are out of position whole hand. Is there not a point in geting your money in when u are ahead if u are out of position? Calling out of position with a better hand makes no sense to me, specially not against a good player who will use board to make u play wrongly postflop.
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#49
11-09-2005, 07:09 PM
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Re: D\'Agostino\'s short-handed advice
[ QUOTE ]
YEp, he says: [ QUOTE ] I don't like to three-bet from the big blind because it tends to announce my hand. My opponents know that I'm starting with a very big hand. [/ QUOTE ] Solution is to 3bet more, not stop 3betting. U can raise him from button or SB with any cheese and he doesnt play back at u, makes no sense. [/ QUOTE ] This type of thinking is petty common on 2+2, but I think it's quite wrong. You shouldn't be taking the preflop lead heads up and out of position (by either 3-betting an open from the bb, or 4-betting a guy who has 3-bet your open behind you) unless you have good reason to do so. The 2 most common good reasons would be if your opponent will give up very easily postflop after you show preflop strength, or if he is getting too far out of line with his preflop steal raises and reraises. You really need to think about the different postflop scenarios that can develop in heads up hands vis a vis who has the preflop lead, and also think about the interaction between information and position in these scenarios. When there is a raise behind you and the pot is heads up, you need to think about how many hands are "proper" calling hands and how many are "proper" 3 or 4 betting hands based on both your equity against the raiser's range and the inherent value of his positional advantage, and ask yourself whether it would be more advisable to balance by either 3 or 4 betting more "proper" calling hands, or calling with more "proper" 3 or 4-betting hands. Absent one of the "common good reasons" mentioned above, the latter will almost always be better all things considered, IMO.
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#50
11-11-2005, 04:41 AM
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Re: D\'Agostino\'s short-handed advice
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] YEp, he says: [ QUOTE ] I don't like to three-bet from the big blind because it tends to announce my hand. My opponents know that I'm starting with a very big hand. [/ QUOTE ] Solution is to 3bet more, not stop 3betting. U can raise him from button or SB with any cheese and he doesnt play back at u, makes no sense. [/ QUOTE ] This type of thinking is petty common on 2+2, but I think it's quite wrong. You shouldn't be taking the preflop lead heads up and out of position (by either 3-betting an open from the bb, or 4-betting a guy who has 3-bet your open behind you) unless you have good reason to do so. The 2 most common good reasons would be if your opponent will give up very easily postflop after you show preflop strength, or if he is getting too far out of line with his preflop steal raises and reraises. You really need to think about the different postflop scenarios that can develop in heads up hands vis a vis who has the preflop lead, and also think about the interaction between information and position in these scenarios. When there is a raise behind you and the pot is heads up, you need to think about how many hands are "proper" calling hands and how many are "proper" 3 or 4 betting hands based on both your equity against the raiser's range and the inherent value of his positional advantage, and ask yourself whether it would be more advisable to balance by either 3 or 4 betting more "proper" calling hands, or calling with more "proper" 3 or 4-betting hands. Absent one of the "common good reasons" mentioned above, the latter will almost always be better all things considered, IMO. [/ QUOTE ] I'm surprised this thread just died. I think there's a lot of metagame stuff worth discussing here.
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