A Little Preflop Excercise

[ErrantNight]

which is why at higher limits people start drifting back towards less straight-forward aggressive play, no?

[sthief09]

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which is why at higher limits people start drifting back towards less straight-forward aggressive play, no?

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I don't know what you mean exactly.

[ErrantNight]

my wording was horrible.

my point was simply that if straight-forward aggressive play means that your limping hands become easier to read at times than your raising hands, it behooves one to vary their play more consistently as opponents become more observant (obstensibly at higher limits) to better disguise one's entire range of playable hands, no?

There's a huge confluence of factors other than this, but really I'm just saying that at some point this is among the reasons why the game that will help you crush 2/4 and 3/6 isn't the game that will let you crush 30/60.

[TStoneMBD]

my 3/6 pfr was around 12.5, and my 5/10 6max is around 16. so this is pretty close to how i already play.

[gaming_mouse]

joker,

i think you're being a tad tight, but think your reasoning is pretty sound all around. One thing tho:

But Josh's exercise says don't limp. Yeah, I said you could fold and not cry, but raise T9s.

HEFAP, pg. 33:

...if you have 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], several players are already in the pot, and no one has yet raised, then raising is probably a good play

They go on to say that this move is valuable primarily against tighter, pot-size aware opposition (which qualifies some 3/6 tables):

Part of the reason for making this raise is to entice your opponents to continue on if you happen to get a flop to your liking

[CallMeIshmael]

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what's pretty interesting is that normally people talk about limping for deception. well, in most cases we're raising more than we're limping, so raising disguises our hand. if you limp it's easier to put you on a small pair or a suited connector

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FWIW...

this hand occured at the 0.50/1.00 table, before things got out of hand. We were all playing our A games here.

Villian in this hand is a poster for whom I have a great deal of respect. This was like 40 hands into the session, and he had open limped 44 UTG (we were showing all hands at this point). He had not thrown in a LRR yet.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Button folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB folds, <font color="#CC3333">UTG 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (5 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 8 BB

I'm not saying I played it right... but, I tried to take the line that had the most folding equity vs a small pair.
I felt very confident that he had either a set, or a small pair, and I would find out about it on the turn.

I've never played this hand like this before. But, we dont face a field this strong every day.

(after the hand he said he had 55)

EDIT: Thoughts on the preflop limp??

I just looked over the hand, and thought that might be a little suspect. Its standard at a normal table, but at one this strong it might be -EV.

[gaming_mouse]

Did you lose all respect for him after this hand? Not calling you down here is insane.

[CallMeIshmael]

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Did you lose all respect for him after this hand? Not calling you down here is insane.

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You think?

Ive check-raised twice... do you really think he is good here 20% of the time (4:1 effective)

[sthief09]

I don't like the flop 3-bet

[CallMeIshmael]

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I don't like the flop 3-bet

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Are you folding to the CR? or simply calling down?