QQ One overcard, multiway

[crovax4444]

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I guess I'm spacin', the hand quizzes in the back talk about jacks and back up your point. Hmmm, I swear I read something about Jacks like that, HEFAP maybe? Sounds like I need to raise jax more, thanks.

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It's not just for set value (the 2's and 5's) Jacks can be played for top pair or whatnot. 2's and 5's are only for set value, unless the board flops A34 or something like that. Pay attention. It's a horrible mistake not to be raising Jacks pf. With that kind of thinking, you might as well not raise Queens or Kings, as there are overcards that can beat you :-p Remember, raise those Jacks

[CardSharpCook]

yeah, its a bet. Particularily because they are passive. If you check, passives will check hands that you beat, bet hands that beat you. If you bet, they'll call with all of them. You only want another bet in the pot if you are winning some 45% of the time. However, this becomes more complicated in that they WILL bet TP if you check, but won't bet hands that you beat if you check. 90% of the time, one and only one more bet will be going into this pot. Chances of being raised are very low. However, you must insure that that bet gets in there those times that you are ahead. That is why you bet here.

[POKhER]

How about Check the turn, bet the river?

Ah this hand is great, I often get in this position.

[CardSharpCook]

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How about Check the turn, bet the river?

Ah this hand is great, I often get in this position.

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No, you still want to fold out aces and weak draws (like a low PP) and charge decent draws (flush, str8). Also, we have no reason to believe that we are behind here. If you get scared by every over card, you'll end up allowing weaker hands to draw out on you for cheap.

CSC

[J. Stew]

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I guess I'm spacin', the hand quizzes in the back talk about jacks and back up your point. Hmmm, I swear I read something about Jacks like that, HEFAP maybe? Sounds like I need to raise jax more, thanks.

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It's not just for set value (the 2's and 5's) Jacks can be played for top pair or whatnot. 2's and 5's are only for set value, unless the board flops A34 or something like that. Pay attention. It's a horrible mistake not to be raising Jacks pf. With that kind of thinking, you might as well not raise Queens or Kings, as there are overcards that can beat you :-p Remember, raise those Jacks

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No, my thinking is that we would just complete/check in the blinds with eights and nines if the hand had five players in already. We complete/check because our pair usually needs to improve to win. This is because there are many overcards that will beat us. With Queens and Kings there are fewer overcards that will beat us and our top pair will hold up ui more often that eights or nines. Jacks are in the middle and there is a cut-off point in there somewhere. It sounds like people are arguing for a raise based on set value. But if that was the case we could raise 55's or two's in this spot couldn't we?

If Jax are an auto-raise in this spot are tens an auto-complete based on the possibility of overcards coming on the flop?

If tens are an auto-complete then not raising jax in a multi-way pot can't be a 'horrible' mistake.

[aces_dad]

There is a discussion on playing J's pf early in HEFAP that I think you're thinking of. Basically the point there is that you'd prefer to play either a very multiway pot hoping to improve or shorthanded (say 3 or less) hoping to win UI.

Anyway discussing regarding raising J's from the SB here, approx 30% of the time you'll flop either a J or no overs, whereas with 5's or 2's, you can't get the favorable no over flops that give you a large equity edge possible with J's. So you're not just raising for set value here but also as equity. Where to draw the line, 8's, 9's, 10's? Personally I most likely wouldn't raise 9's here and 10's depend on game conditions but I'd raise J's here everytime.

[POKhER]

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How about Check the turn, bet the river?

Ah this hand is great, I often get in this position.

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No, you still want to fold out aces and weak draws (like a low PP) and charge decent draws (flush, str8). Also, we have no reason to believe that we are behind here. If you get scared by every over card, you'll end up allowing weaker hands to draw out on you for cheap.

CSC

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My general "aggression" would be to bet sure, but i've been here many times and sometimes agression isn't wise.

This is screaming "I HOLD KING BUT AM CHECK CALLING YOU" however i know this is "weak tight"... But maybe justified?

Im really torn up on this hand!

[deception5]

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With Jacks I just complete with six others already in, QQ I'm raising.

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I think I'd raise any pair here.

Edit: In fact I'd cap if I was lucky enough to have a limp-reraiser.

[J. Stew]

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With Jacks I just complete with six others already in, QQ I'm raising.

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I think I'd raise any pair here.

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Why are you raising two's in this spot.

[J. Stew]

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There is a discussion on playing J's pf early in HEFAP that I think you're thinking of. Basically the point there is that you'd prefer to play either a very multiway pot hoping to improve or shorthanded (say 3 or less) hoping to win UI.

Anyway discussing regarding raising J's from the SB here, approx 30% of the time you'll flop either a J or no overs, whereas with 5's or 2's, you can't get the favorable no over flops that give you a large equity edge possible with J's. So you're not just raising for set value here but also as equity. Where to draw the line, 8's, 9's, 10's? Personally I most likely wouldn't raise 9's here and 10's depend on game conditions but I'd raise J's here everytime.

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Thanks, what conditions would be necessary to raise tens from the SB/BB?