A Pokerbot has finally arrived.

[pudley4]

[ QUOTE ]
we do hereby admit and announce officially that the default winholdem settings (empty hand lists) will fold 100% of the time in 3rd chair against 9 opponents.


[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you for acknowleding this piece of information.

Do you see how your formula is wrong?

It assumes you are up against 7 other players - none of whom have put money in the pot! This is what I have been trying to say - the formula is wrong.

[jedi]

Geez, it's not my question, it was pudleys. The cheating I'm referring to is the knowledge of other people's cards, with or without their permission. How does that enhance the poker experience? This is exactly what your program claims to do.

[ QUOTE ]
jedi,

....
i cant answer your question about cheating because i have never had knowledge of another players cards without their permission.

please rephrase your question.

winholdem support.

[/ QUOTE ]

[WinHoldemSupport]

pud,

no its not wrong. its just not as accurate as it could be.

do you honestly believe that we did not already know that the default formula uses the lowest pot estimate possible.

so, i think i get it now, you have been assuming all along, that none of the math heads in the lab didn't understand that the default formula used a low pot estimate or that the formula was not as accurate as it could be.

pud, the default evcall formula is not an accident and it is not a mistake (wrong) ... it is purely and completely intentional on the part of management. i was assuming that everyone here knew that and understood that it was less than accurate because it is free.

this is a business man... do you honestly expect that we would release the more accurate formulas for free???

however, pud, even though the default evcall formula is not as accurate as it can be, it played 10k hands over 10 days and increased its bankroll by 40%.

so let me rephrase for your benefit.

the default winholdem call formula is a pure expected value formula that could be more accurate than it is but still managed to increase its bankroll over 40% after playing 10k hands at a real money table ... (empty hand list ... always folding in 3rd chair).

does this make you happy now?

winholdem support

[pudley4]

[ QUOTE ]
no its not wrong. its just not as accurate as it could be.


[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, ok. So do you agree that 2+2=5 isn't wrong, it's just "not as accurate as it can be"

[ QUOTE ]
so, i think i get it now, you have been assuming all along, that none of the math heads in the lab didn't understand that the default formula used a low pot estimate or that the formula was not as accurate as it could be.


[/ QUOTE ]

You are the one who came on here claiming it "played perfect pot odds". It's not my fault you misrepresented your product.

[ QUOTE ]
pud, the default evcall formula is not an accident and it is not a mistake (wrong) ... it is purely and completely intentional on the part of management. i was assuming that everyone here knew that and understood that it was less than accurate because it is free

[/ QUOTE ]

Pokertracker is free (for a 1000 hand demo), yet they manage to put out an almost completely accurate and incredibly useful product. If you want their full version, you send them money and they give you a license to use the full product. Doesn't sound too difficult for you guys to do something similar (10 day trial...), especially since we need to connect to the internet to even use the product.

[ QUOTE ]
however, pud, even though the default evcall formula is not as accurate as it can be, it played 10k hands over 10 days and increased its bankroll by 40%.


[/ QUOTE ]

That's nice. First, I never claimed your product wouldn't make money playing low limits. Second, 10k hands is a small number. Third, increasing bankroll by 40% is meaningless - was your bankroll 25BB or 1000BB? It makes a difference.

[ QUOTE ]
so let me rephrase for your benefit.

the default winholdem call formula is a pure expected value formula that could be more accurate than it is but still managed to increase its bankroll over 40% after playing 10k hands at a real money table ... (empty hand list ... always folding in 3rd chair).

does this make you happy now?


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't care how you say it so long as it's true.

[pudley4]

My first question was:

How does knowing my opponents and teammates cards enhance my poker experience?

I won't accept the following answers:

* It gives you more information about how your opponent/teammate plays, allowing you to play better poker against them.

* It allows you to follow along during the hand, giving you a "rooting interest" in the hand even after you folded

Neither of these answers is acceptable because your program allows me to find out their hole cards while I still have a hand. If your program were to only allow me to see this information after I had folded then I see no problem with it. It's exactly as if I were sitting next to my friend in a B&M, folded my hand, and then had him show me his cards.

[WinHoldemSupport]

pud,

let me rephrase then:

winholdem plays PURE pot odds (and is only as perfect as the information input into the calculation)

technically there is no such thing as a 'perfect' pot odds calculation because you would have to have perfect foreknowledge of exactly what the pot was going to be ... which why we all call it 'pot estimate'

so please accept my apology for using the word 'perfect'.

winholdem plays pure pot odds using a pure expected value formula ... some ev formulas are more accurate than others and yield better results.

is there anything else i can do for you pudley4?

winholdem support

[CrackerZack]

Due to the idiocy of the winholdem guy spamming here, I am willing to pay for your party to launch a DOS attack on the winholdem sites, especially their license server. Please PM to work out payment arrangements.

Thanks.

<font color="white"> Disclaimer: I am joking although this product is a hack. I do not want a DOS attack against any ISP and will not fund one.</font>

[WinHoldemSupport]

pudley,

i can't answer that question either because i've never had knowledge an opponents cards.

winholdem support.

[zilla]

Who is the real spammer here? CrackerZack you have over 2,800 posts to your credit! And publicly offering to pay for a DOS "Hit" -- you have got to be kidding!

[jedi]

At a table, EVERYONE is your opponent. So if someone is sharing cards with you, that would be considered part of his question. Since that is one of the advertised functions of the program, how does it enhance the poker playing experience?

Don't dodge the question again. Just because you define "opponent" as someone different than the rest of the poker playing world doesn't make it so.

[ QUOTE ]
pudley,

i can't answer that question either because i've never had knowledge an opponents cards.

winholdem support.

[/ QUOTE ]