2+2 Table is open at Party

[daveymck]

Sorry I was just highlighting the discussion on the micro forum, I havent been a the 2+2 table apart from those few hands so not sure how it normally plays.

[AliasMrJones]

I hope you didn't take that the wrong way. Suggesting new ideas is good [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I just don't think that would help in this case.

Why exactly do the micro limit players want the tougher players to comment rather than play? It seems that sitting around and commenting would be more of a waste of time for higher limit players than playing micro limits? (Or at least that playing would be no less a waste of time as in either case they'll be making less than they would actually playing higher limit.)

[morgant]

there are maniacs in the game, you need to learn to play with them and use them to help you win bigger pots, i think that having jinky is a great asset, the point of the 2+2 table is not to have a rock garden where we know an early position limp means a monster etc....where all hands are transparent, there is nothing to be learned in that environment, i feel it should resemble a normal table as much as possible but it has the benefit of opening up the hands to all involved the very next day and strategies and playing lines can be discussed, that is the invaluable benefit of playing that table(for me anyways). many times i have seen people complaining about the maniac, but hey, they exist and are part of the game and it is imperative to learn how to coexist with them. Isn't the old adage, if you can't beat the any two guy your game needs some work(okay maybe not an adage and not old but fitting nonetheless)?

[ScottTheFish]

Some of them just seem to enjoy helping the newer players learn. They don't get paid to post on here, either but they do it.

I didn't think they wouold want to just watch and comment either, but a few seem to be up for it, and I certainly won't say no! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
The micro limit suggestion about higher limit players watching/commenting

[/ QUOTE ]

I suggested that if there were a few of us around maybe we could watch/comment. Micro just wanted to get a game.

[ QUOTE ]
hat happens now when low/micro limit players post hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

It does but there is nothing like onsite comments. Watching the action seeing how every hand develops is much better than reading a post when commenting on it, I feel.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[daveymck]

I didnt, but I realised that my post could be taken as opinion when it was pointing out facts.

Some of the experienced guys seemed to be agreeing in the thread on micro to watch and comment.

For my part I feel that the table has to be aimed at people in a certain way, the idea is that its a cheap way for everyone to play together, but it depends on where you are in your playing and development.

For newer and improving micro players they need a table that plays like a micro table ok its not going to be a true party type table as the players should have a better idea but if you are not getting a chance to play your 'normal' game I dont see how people can comment on your game and how you played hands because you are in a situation new to you and learning to play in a tight agressive game isnt really going to help you beat the micros.

For players moving up to small stakes and wanting to move up beyond building on what was learnt in micros then a tighter more agressive table agaisnt good higher limit players with smaller risk of .5/1 stakes is ideal. Having played in micros I can play loose passive tables (to a dergree not saying I'm and expert) learning to play tighter more agressive tables is the next step of learning. A maniac there from time to time is educational but if that was the texture constantly of the table I would not see the point for anyone the guys trying to learn and the experienced guys giving their time to try and help.

I dont think someone with one or two months period of playing poker was going to get anything useful out of the table the other night (in the time I was there)and that is where the intent of the table comes down too, I think having two tables with intent set ie micro beginner, medium stakes etc would make it more sucessful and more of a point for everyone concerned.

I think if the intent of the tables are clarified everyone can know where they are have the right expectations and play the table accordingly.

[AliasMrJones]

You're missing my point entirely. I agree that one needs to learn to play against the maniac. The problem was only one person got to do that. Blini isolated virtually every hand so the rest of the table just got to watch. How does that help me sitting 2 to the right of maniac when I don't get to play?

Also, there are plenty of maniacs in the wild. There aren't nearly as many 2+2 caliber players. I'd much prefer to get in my tough player practice at the 2+2 table as I can practice against maniacs elsewhere.

[rharless]

I played with her twice and that (only her and Blini get to play) didn't happen when I was there, so the texture must have been different earlier.

I have to ask since I wasn't there -- it sounds like MrBlini was "over-"isolating? Maybe you all weren't adjusting to his wider range of 3-betting hands? Either that or he was on a rush of cards. If he is isolating with KTs-like cards regularly, and playing headsup with jinky regularly, then it would seem people are at least sometimes throwing away better hands that could/should be 3-bet.

Gotta get jiggy with it. Isn't that what kids are saying these days? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

I wasn't there during the Extreme-Jinky spell, so my theories might be totally off.

[morgant]

if the rest of the table watched that is their faults, blini can't have the goods all the time, he must be isolating with marginal hands, so get in there and shake them up. it is more expensive to see flops but the payouts will be handsome. 2 the right of the maniac is not that bad a spot, limp your monsters into him and let him do the rest. so if there are more maniacs in the wild than 2+2ers it would seem that i want to become more proficient at beating maniacs than beating 2+2ers, seems much more profitable to me. maniacs are frustating but they are playing within the rules of the game, so if you can't beat them they are beating you.

[AliasMrJones]

[ QUOTE ]
if there are more maniacs in the wild than 2+2ers it would seem that i want to become more proficient at beating maniacs than beating 2+2ers

[/ QUOTE ]

You're, again, missing my point. I can play against maniacs many places. Pick any play money table. Many $.50/1 tables. I can play against a table full of 2+2 quality players rarely. I don't come to the 2+2 table to play against players I can find at micro/low limit Party. Why would I when they're all over the regular tables?

While I seem to be the one arguing this here. Others came and left because of the play. I'd like to play against Vehn. Unfortunately, seeing the childish play set him running off to find something more interesting to do. A couple of others came and left as well. I'd much rather practice playing against a Vehn or a GOT or a JT playing well than a JinkyG playing stupid. So, if JinkyG is going to chase away the players I want to play against (and I'm not saying she specifically chased away all of those I mentioned), I'd rather chase away JinkyG.

I played well I thought and JinkyG's play didn't disrupt my play per se, but I don't think her kind of play belongs at the 2+2 table. As I said, if you want to find stupid play, you can at many Party tables. No need to come to a special 2+2 table for that. I'd prefer that the 2+2 table be for practicing against the kind of tough play I don't typically see in the LL games I play in so when I do go up against tough opponents, I'll be better prepared.