Atlanta vs. Miami (November 6) - Opportunity Knocks in a Big Way

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Give him Manning's receivers and I'd bet we hear the accuracy issues (unjustifiably) go away. He's got nothing to work with right now.

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There is no receiver on Indianapolis, in the NFL, or the college ranks that is either 11 feet tall or equipped with Go-Go-Gadget arms.

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Separation ability, something Finneran/Jenkins/White don't have.

But again, his accuracy is not good.

[CCx]

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Give him Manning's receivers and I'd bet we hear the accuracy issues (unjustifiably) go away. He's got nothing to work with right now.

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There is no receiver on Indianapolis, in the NFL, or the college ranks that is either 11 feet tall or equipped with Go-Go-Gadget arms.

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Separation ability, something Finneran/Jenkins/White don't have.

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Thanks for the hint, I've watched 4 Falcons games cover to cover this year in addition to the many I've watched since Vick came into the league, because he's certainly an exciting player to watch (especially when your other choices of games to watch are, say, Browns/Ravens) - small sample size I know, but I've seen plenty of seperation from the receivers, especially considering the quality of the secondaries they've played. He routinely has trouble getting them the ball after they've ditched coverage. I think that the receivers' inability to make a play on the ball is a lot more at fault (if we're talking about things that aren't Vick's fault) than their ability to get seperation. He can't get them the ball when they outrun the secondary, and they can't make plays on the ball when he throws a good one. A top-tier receiver (Moss, Harrison, Owens) can only TRY to correct one of those problems. A receiver like Moss can dance his ass down the field and wave his arms in the air like he just dont care, but when the ball goes sailing 15 feet over his head on a regular basis, or Vick doesn't see him because he's too busy playing the Michael Vick experience, square one. He has to start getting the ball to the open man on a more consistent basis, and he has plenty of opportunity to do so.

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Give him Manning's receivers and I'd bet we hear the accuracy issues (unjustifiably) go away. He's got nothing to work with right now.

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There is no receiver on Indianapolis, in the NFL, or the college ranks that is either 11 feet tall or equipped with Go-Go-Gadget arms.

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Separation ability, something Finneran/Jenkins/White don't have.

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Thanks for the hint, I've watched 4 Falcons games cover to cover this year in addition to the many I've watched since Vick came into the league, because he's certainly an exciting player to watch (especially when your other choices of games to watch are, say, Browns/Ravens) - small sample size I know, but I've seen plenty of seperation from the receivers, especially considering the quality of the secondaries they've played. He routinely has trouble getting them the ball after they've ditched coverage. I think that the receivers' inability to make a play on the ball is a lot more at fault (if we're talking about things that aren't Vick's fault) than their ability to get seperation. He can't get them the ball when they outrun the secondary, and they can't make plays on the ball when he throws a good one. A top-tier receiver (Moss, Harrison, Owens) can only TRY to correct one of those problems. A receiver like Moss can dance his ass down the field and wave his arms in the air like he just dont care, but when the ball goes sailing 15 feet over his head on a regular basis, or Vick doesn't see him because he's too busy playing the Michael Vick experience, square one. He has to start getting the ball to the open man on a more consistent basis, and he has plenty of opportunity to do so.

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I hear ya and I didn't mean to sound like a jerk. I've watched almost all the Indy and Atl games this year and it's pretty amazing how often Wayne and Harrison get open in the midsection of the defense. Manning also gets ridiculous protection.

I too have seen Vick also repeatedly underthrow and overthrow receivers and I know his accuracy isn't good. But that's the reason why Mora's coordinator only calls about 30 pass plays per game -- It's best to use the personnel on the field to their best ability (this includes Dunn as well as Vick)

[YoureToast]

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Sharps think Atlanta is overrated . . . Squares moreso think Atlanta (and Vick in particular) is overrated.

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Huh? If everyone thinks that Atlanta is overrated, then who do they think is doing this overrating?

(By the way, Atlanta is overrated. Vick is still the most inaccurate starting QB in the league, and their defense has taken a step back from last year.)

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More evidence supporting my theories. Keep it coming.

[YoureToast]

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Sharps think Atlanta is overrated . . . Squares moreso think Atlanta (and Vick in particular) is overrated.

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Huh? If everyone thinks that Atlanta is overrated, then who do they think is doing this overrating?

(By the way, Atlanta is overrated. Vick is still the most inaccurate starting QB in the league, and their defense has taken a step back from last year.)

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Vick's value as a first down-maker is incalculable and changes the way defenses line up against the Falcons on every play. On the other hand, his accuracy, and pass vision, is not at all where it should be for a 5th year player or even a 25 year old. I think Toast would agree with and concede to me on both points.

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Yes, but, on the first point, its more than that. On the second point, I am actually surprised by his lack of progression but you are correct.

[YoureToast]

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Vick's value as a first down-maker is incalculable and changes the way defenses line up against the Falcons on every play.

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I agree, but the fact that he's a below average passer makes it something of a wash. He's a fine QB, but he has (in most circles) an elite rep, which is crazy. Yes, he makes uniquely great plays with his legs and punches holes in opposing defenses by his mere presence, but seemingly every other play he misses an open receiver, or fails to hit one in stride (thus nixing valuable YAC), or throws the ball to the safety, or tries to make something happen with his legs instead of throwing the ball away and gets sacked.

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Worst trade ever: Vick for LT? Atlanta got jobbed by San Diego on that one.

natedogg

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Ya think?...Why don't you go take a look at Atlanta's record with Vick, Atlanta's record without Vick and LaDanian's record since that trade?

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Vick's value as a first down-maker is incalculable and changes the way defenses line up against the Falcons on every play.

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I agree, but the fact that he's a below average passer makes it something of a wash. He's a fine QB, but he has (in most circles) an elite rep, which is crazy. Yes, he makes uniquely great plays with his legs and punches holes in opposing defenses by his mere presence, but seemingly every other play he misses an open receiver, or fails to hit one in stride (thus nixing valuable YAC), or throws the ball to the safety, or tries to make something happen with his legs instead of throwing the ball away and gets sacked.

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Worst trade ever: Vick for LT? Atlanta got jobbed by San Diego on that one.

natedogg

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Ya think?...Why don't you go take a look at Atlanta's record with Vick, Atlanta's record without Vick and LaDanian's record since that trade?

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Actually I think this debate boils down to...would you be better off with Brees/LT or Vick/Dunn?

[YoureToast]

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So whats the line going to be? What would you need to bet Atl?

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A lot depends on how Miami performs against New Orleans. I actually am more interested in seeing how the line moves after it opens, as I suspect Atlanta will be favored by less than 3 and then it will move toward Miami. If Miami performs well against New Orleans, I could see a PK or even Miami being favored. In that situation, I may not wait to watch the line movement.

[YoureToast]

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Vick changes the way defenses play. Give him Manning's receivers and I'd bet we hear the accuracy issues (unjustifiably) go away. He's got nothing to work with right now.

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Syg, I disagree with this. Vick's passing ineffectiveness is more a product of Vick not being completely comfortable with the offense and with reading defenses generally and with his general inaccuracy, than with the receivers. He will improve, but he will never be Peyton Manning or anything close. I further contend that it doesn't matter.

[YoureToast]

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Manning also gets ridiculous protection.


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This is very true. Vick gets pounded. Part of it is his fault, but part of it is that their OL, while excellent run blockers, are not completely together in terms of pass blocking. The Jets game evidenced this.