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#31
08-17-2005, 09:06 PM
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Re: \"You are pathetic\" (preflop question)
Why make some half-assed EV guess next time you're coldcalling with some shitty speculative hand when you can work out a much better one once and get a better idea of what you're going to get back the next time you want to coldcall a field of 4 with T9s? Is this some bizarre idea people don't think about?
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#33
08-17-2005, 09:08 PM
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Re: \"You are pathetic\" (preflop question)
[ QUOTE ]
Why make some half-assed EV guess next time you're coldcalling with some shitty speculative hand when you can work out a much better one once and get a better idea of what you're going to get back the next time you want to coldcall a field of 4 with T9s? Is this some bizarre idea people don't think about? [/ QUOTE ] Not your reasoning, amigo. The math. I was asking if you'd lay out the math.
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#34
08-17-2005, 09:13 PM
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Re: \"You are pathetic\" (preflop question)
[ QUOTE ]
Your implied odds are so gigantic, since it's obvious that these two will go to war [/ QUOTE ] When you're going into a hand with an equity disadvantage (and I think we are), the bets going in preflop tend to hurt our implied odds. The more we put in now, the more we have to make up when we catch to justify the original call. [ QUOTE ] and you either hit the flop or you don't [/ QUOTE ] This is more true for a hand like 66 than for a hand like 87s.
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#35
08-17-2005, 09:26 PM
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Re: \"You are pathetic\" (preflop question)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Your implied odds are so gigantic, since it's obvious that these two will go to war [/ QUOTE ] When you're going into a hand with an equity disadvantage (and I think we are), the bets going in preflop tend to hurt our implied odds. The more we put in now, the more we have to make up when we catch to justify the original call. [ QUOTE ] and you either hit the flop or you don't [/ QUOTE ] This is more true for a hand like 66 than for a hand like 87s. [/ QUOTE ] I disagree. We either flop a draw (or made hand) or we don't. If the flop comes A82, we're drawing to probably 4 outs (5 but probably discount 1 in case he's got a set). If it comes AK8, we can find a fold. If we flop a gutshot, we need to re-evaluate based on the action. I realize that stove is a bad way to look at preflop, but our equity isn't as bad as it looks. I set up a normal TAG range for raising, and a normal 3bet range, a fish with ATC, and a fish who calls any ace/PP (I believe these are reasonable ranges for our opponents) 310,472 games 7.751 secs 40,055 games/sec Board: Dead: equity (%) win (%) tie (%) Hand 1: 22.3219 % 21.12% 01.21% { TT+, ATs+, KJs+, QJs, ATo+, KQo } Hand 2: 29.1272 % 27.91% 01.21% { TT+, AQs+, AQo+ } Hand 3: 12.9002 % 12.35% 00.55% { random } Hand 4: 19.5869 % 19.23% 00.35% { 98s } Hand 5: 16.0638 % 15.11% 00.96% { 22+, A2s+, A2o+ }
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#36
08-17-2005, 09:28 PM
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Re: \"You are pathetic\" (preflop question) *DELETED*
Post deleted by Vincent
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#37
08-17-2005, 09:33 PM
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Re: \"You are pathetic\" (preflop question)
What's ATC?
Edit: any two cards Edit2: Not even fish play ATC for multiple bets (100VPIP). Edit3: [ QUOTE ] I realize that stove is a bad way to look at preflop, but our equity isn't as bad as it looks. [/ QUOTE ] I think it's a good way to look at it. If confirms a previous poster saying our equity was 20%+.
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#39
08-17-2005, 09:51 PM
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Re: \"You are pathetic\" (preflop question)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Your implied odds are so gigantic, since it's obvious that these two will go to war [/ QUOTE ] When you're going into a hand with an equity disadvantage (and I think we are), the bets going in preflop tend to hurt our implied odds. The more we put in now, the more we have to make up when we catch to justify the original call. [ QUOTE ] and you either hit the flop or you don't [/ QUOTE ] This is more true for a hand like 66 than for a hand like 87s. [/ QUOTE ] I disagree. We either flop a draw (or made hand) or we don't. If the flop comes A82, we're drawing to probably 4 outs (5 but probably discount 1 in case he's got a set). If it comes AK8, we can find a fold. If we flop a gutshot, we need to re-evaluate based on the action. I realize that stove is a bad way to look at preflop, but our equity isn't as bad as it looks. I set up a normal TAG range for raising, and a normal 3bet range, a fish with ATC, and a fish who calls any ace/PP (I believe these are reasonable ranges for our opponents) 310,472 games 7.751 secs 40,055 games/sec Board: Dead: equity (%) win (%) tie (%) Hand 1: 22.3219 % 21.12% 01.21% { TT+, ATs+, KJs+, QJs, ATo+, KQo } Hand 2: 29.1272 % 27.91% 01.21% { TT+, AQs+, AQo+ } Hand 3: 12.9002 % 12.35% 00.55% { random } Hand 4: 19.5869 % 19.23% 00.35% { 98s } Hand 5: 16.0638 % 15.11% 00.96% { 22+, A2s+, A2o+ } [/ QUOTE ] A couple of thoughts: (1) I think throwing a random hand in there distorts things a little bit. (2) For a few of the "wins" that make up our equity, it's going to be hard to get to showdown, if the postflop action is heavy. That said, I don't really think staying in is so bad. I suspect it's a close decision. Primarily what I was responding to when I replied to your first post in this thread is the idea that heavy preflop action = gigiantic implied odds. I don't think this is true.
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#40
08-17-2005, 09:55 PM
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Re: \"You are pathetic\" (preflop question)
[ QUOTE ]
Flop came 655 two of my suit, turn 8, river 8. I didn't even raise the flop because I was fairly sure he had an overpair adn didn't want him to knock out the other two players by 3betting me. [/ QUOTE ] You pattern map g00t. Oh yeah, and you are pathetic, but for different reasons. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I definately make the initial preflop call with 2 posters. As for when it's 2 back to you, I make the call, but that does not mean I'm right.
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