Your play here....

[pooh74]

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This is an incredibly odd way to play 2 pair on a coordinated board.



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This is NOT a coordinated board by any stretch. As Im it sure has been pointed out, 86 and 99 are only two of many possible hands that would play it this way and I think given that you're ahead of a vast majority, calling/pushing is correct here.

Whether making "big laydowns" is correct or not early, this is not one of those times. Begin making this laydown consistently and see your ROI go down.

[kyro]

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Nobody is betting like they have anything. If I am the BB, I might assume that 2 pair is good. I might assume that tens or jacks are good. I might assume that A9o is good.

The betting is a complete mess, and I think it's a huge mistake to fold a set to this crap. Push it, live with the consequences.

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Assuming JJ is good on this board with this action is a terrible, terrible assumption.

And do you really think people min-reraise with crap often? I realize this is an $11 (I think?) but even my idiot friends in my home game would know that A9 is way behind here.

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Of course it's a terrible assumption. And the betting implies a bunch of terrible players.

There are a few situations in which I might fold a set on a ragged board. This ain't one of them.

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I think even the terriblest(yep, i said terriblest) of players merely calls with his JJ rather than raise. I could be overestimating the intelligence of these people though.

[pokerlaw]

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SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets t40, MP2 calls t40, Hero raises to t80, SB folds, BB calls t80, UTG+1 raises to t120, MP2 folds, Hero calls t40, BB raises to t330, UTG+1 calls t210, Hero calls t210.


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Before the final t210 call, you need to decide. Am I going to play this hand more, or do I fold. If you are not going to play this hand anymore, fold now. Don't call the t210. I think there's a lot to be said for playing a little defense here. But, since you called, I find that to be the worst decision of the three possible. If you're going to play, play = PUSH.

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There is NO reason that you should flat call this 210 bet. I would push and hope I dont see 86. Even if he does have 86, which is fairly likely, you still have outs.

Instead of that min raise, raise around the pot next time.

[kyro]

I'm sorry. Maybe it's the difference of levels. Maybe I haven't played enough SNGs to see this type of hand enough. Maybe I'm just a terrible player and an spewing idiocy. But from my experience. A min-bet followed by 2 min-raises does not mean weakness. The BB would be a complete moron to make this raise with anything less than 97 in my opinion...and even that seems to be stretching it.

[jcm4ccc]

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From my experience. A min-bet followed by 2 min-raises does not mean weakness.

[/ QUOTE ] That's right. All it means is that the players don't know how to play.

It's harder to put a bad player on a hand than a good player. That's why it's a mistake to fold this hand.

[kyro]

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From my experience. A min-bet followed by 2 min-raises does not mean weakness.

[/ QUOTE ] That's right. All it means is that the players don't know how to play.

It's harder to put a bad player on a hand than a good player. That's why it's a mistake to fold this hand.

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I agree with you to a point. What I'm saying is, BB would have to be worse than bad to raise like that without a solid hand.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Make it about 400 to go on the flop. Why only minraise? Unless you're committed to folding to any pressure, all the minraise does is increase the probability that you'll get broke.

[adanthar]

With 97, *as the BB*, I am probably not getting off it without a lot more evidence than a bunch of minbetting donkeys. The 3 bet is easy and I call a push or a 4 bet depending. But we know he probably doesn't have 97.

Next: The low limits have plenty of idiots. These idiots, though, are calling stations, LAG's who love to bluff at a scary board, people who randomly raise 62o, etc. etc. etc. We all know them, we all know their play and we can summarize someone in that category within ten hands.

None of those types would coldcall two minbets, then four bet when it came back to them with just any two. Lots of people will put in a third raise with 95o with 2 bets to them; nobody will do this particular play without a monster. Granted, very rarely, that monster is misplayed aces or something equally ridiculous, but the one thing this is almost certainly not is a weird 2 pair or overpair under AA.

Therefore, there is very little difference in this spot between having 77 and 75o. Once you figure that out, you can see how strong your hand really is.

Bottom line: I think this is a calldown no matter what with 99, you can make up your mind on the turn/river with 77, and it may be an unimproved fold on the turn with 55 (though then you have the 97 possibility so it's trickier).

Anyway, the important thing is to make a real raise on the flop and then play it from there.

[GtrHtr]

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With 97, *as the BB*, I am probably not getting off it without a lot more evidence than a bunch of minbetting donkeys. The 3 bet is easy and I call a push or a 4 bet depending. But we know he probably doesn't have 97.

Next: The low limits have plenty of idiots. These idiots, though, are calling stations, LAG's who love to bluff at a scary board, people who randomly raise 62o, etc. etc. etc. We all know them, we all know their play and we can summarize someone in that category within ten hands.

None of those types would coldcall two minbets, then four bet when it came back to them with just any two. Lots of people will put in a third raise with 95o with 2 bets to them; nobody will do this particular play without a monster. Granted, very rarely, that monster is misplayed aces or something equally ridiculous, but the one thing this is almost certainly not is a weird 2 pair or overpair under AA.

Therefore, there is very little difference in this spot between having 77 and 75o. Once you figure that out, you can see how strong your hand really is.

Bottom line: I think this is a calldown no matter what with 99, you can make up your mind on the turn/river with 77, and it may be an unimproved fold on the turn with 55 (though then you have the 97 possibility so it's trickier).

Anyway, the important thing is to make a real raise on the flop and then play it from there.

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Thanks very much. Both of your posts and Scuba's posts have taught me a great deal. I freely admit my flop call was horrible, but the betting threw me off and I failed to correctly think through a number of things throughout the betting on the flop.

Very good insight.