99...now what?

[TheUsher]

[ QUOTE ]
So, SwiftSteal's play was fine, but mine was terrible? What the hell is the difference? We played the exact same way. We both made incorrect reads, he got lucky, and I didn't. Period.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you honestly think I was trying to bash you for playing terrible, you're wrong. I was only explaining different ways to play the hand and providing a close enough example of a hand that popped in my head while reading yours. If you don't think I have anything useful to say, then feel free to ignore me from now on.

I'm now not replying to this thread any longer as it has already taken up way too much of my time. I am a nice guy and do always try to help though, as many here could probably tell you. Good day to you sir.

[Bigwig]

This is an easy fold postflop.

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
So, SwiftSteal's play was fine, but mine was terrible? What the hell is the difference? We played the exact same way. We both made incorrect reads, he got lucky, and I didn't. Period.

[/ QUOTE ]

The difference is that SS was in a far better position to reconsider his read and fold on the turn when he still had some chips, while *also* not giving AK a river card.

Your checkraise giving the other guy something like a billion to one odds to call with anything accomplishes neither of those things.

[Gigabet]

I don't know which of these threads this response falls under, but it basically a responds to the general idea that swiftsteals 88 and jah0550's 99 were similar.

First off, this line that Swiftsteal plays is "my" line. It is my most common line when I am out of position, in fact, there are situations where I play a hand I normally wouldn't against a certain player, just because I happen to be out of position, which makes this line readily available. I could easily write 100 pages about the intracacies of this line, but I will spare you all the boring details.

I am surprised that with all the poker knowledge spread throughout this thread not one person mentioned the only thing that made these two hands incomparable. Position, because jon cannot act first on the turn, he always has to raise or fold the flop, unless of course he has a dead read on the guy that makes him on something that would be very difficult to catch up.

The check call and lead out play was refined by me and a couple other players because there are alot of times that JJ and Ak look exactly alike when you are reading betting patterns, so of course, if you are against anyone who is even halfway tough, you will always be mucking middle pairs on the flop without improvement, which seems like an awful waste of strength, if they are on just two overcards. The standard idea is to raise the flop, to gain information, find out where a player is at, but because there just isn't enough stack in play, you would always be raising either too little or too much relative to your stack size vs the size of the pot, basically, if you don't raise 3x his bet(if he makes a decent size bet that is, 2/3 of the pot at least) then you are giving him the enough odds to call the raise with just two overcards, if he can put you on one pair, which at that point is fairly easy to do. Now the turn card comes, you have made a raise, he has called, and suppose you see an offsuit Q hit the board, you have a pot that is now almost large enough to send u to the final three. Now you are the one faced with all of the decision making...because he acts first. If he is experienced at all, he makes no choices, but gives them all to you, just bet around 1/3 of whatever is left in your stack, or 2/3 of the pot(whichever would make more "sense"), and he just forced you to make a decisiont for all your chips.

But with the ck and call play, we don't play the hand in position, we play it only out of position. Pot size management, if you will, great for fast structures and small starting stacks holding a marginal hand in a HU situation.

The problem with the 99 is everything that I mentioned above, which is why I try and avoid situations like that, because even a less experienced player probably is going to accidentally force you to make all of the tough decisions. When you ck and call then lead out, your lead out only has to be substantial enough to take away odds, which, if he isn't home, then you do not have to worry about trying to battle for a monster pot, they will almost always let it go if they miss, and they will almost always smooth call if they are home(or picked up another draw). Obviously, swiftsteal screwed up by not realizing that her lead out, while forcing her opponent to make a decision, left her with no choices when he raised, she had no decisions to make, she was forced to depend on her read that she would catch her set on the river I think she was thrown off by the raise, people just don't min raise 1 pair in that spot. So she thought he was being slightly "stupid" tricky, cause he knows that he cannot make a raise that only leaves 180 left in her stack, especially if it is a min raise.

The 99 hand, while is easy to play with a decent amount of chips, is almost impossible to play in the structure you are shown here, ck raise all in on the flop, or at least ck raise showing commitment to your stack, or just fold. You don't have enough chips to gain info on one street.

Not sure if I was totally clear here, but it should give the original poster a better idea of what is really going to happen when he gets into a raised pot with a marginal hand.

Gigabet

[john_]

[ QUOTE ]
I could easily write 100 pages about the intracacies of this line, but I will spare you all the boring details.

[/ QUOTE ]

Insightful, I'd read every detail of the 100 pages you'd write on this line...probably multiple times.

[ QUOTE ]
First off, this line that Swiftsteal plays is "my" line.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
So she thought he was being slightly "stupid" tricky, cause he knows that he cannot make a raise that only leaves 180 left in her stack, especially if it is a min raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting, so you're saying you aren't swiftsteal?

[Gigabet]

I simply said my line because I use it more than any other line. Don't read too much into it, and the thread is about a very interesting hand, not about me. These are the reasons I don't like to post much.

[Degen]

get a new nick for 2+2

Degen