AQs live hand - Page 4

TheWorstPlayer · #31 01-17-2005, 05:06 AM

I agree with you. But from a game theory perspective, here is my question:

Will you ever call a check/raise on the flop? With what hands? If you will never call a check/raise, then villain should just always check/raise you. If you will call a check/raise, then when? Clearly not with AQ on a Q high flop. What about AQ on an A high flop?

octop · #32 01-17-2005, 05:12 AM

I think I would call a check raise with a set on a rainbow uncoordinted board to trap, with TP and a draw ( for example if there were 2 spades on this flop) or agaisnt a loose player who overvalues his hand or likes to bluff. Against this particular player if an Ace was on the Board i may have reraised and ogne from there.

TheWorstPlayer · #33 01-17-2005, 05:18 AM

OK, and will you bet when checked to on the flop if you don't hit your set with a pocket pair? I'm trying to figure out how many flops he can check/raise you off your hand. So far, it seems like any uncoordinated, non-A high flop he can check/raise you out unless you hit your set, which only can happen when you have a pocket pair, and only then 1 in 7 times. But, if you won't bet when checked to, then it may be better for him to lead. So, will you bet when checked to if you miss your set with your pocket pair?

octop · #34 01-17-2005, 05:22 AM

I would probly bet a PP about half the time on that board
It just really wasnt a hand I was in love with even though th flop looked good, I couldnt see making much money off of it but I could see losing a lot. As I'm typing this right now I really see why I should have folded preflop, I was just asking for trouble.
I dont liek getting involved in big pots on good but not great hands unless its a loose idiot who overvalues his hands, but I also dont want to get run over.

TheWorstPlayer · #35 01-17-2005, 05:23 AM

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I agree 100%. So I am trying to figure out a)how not to get run over and b)how to run other people over in these situations. Thanks for your responses!

octop · #36 01-17-2005, 05:30 AM

Im trying to figure out the same thing. Its frustating sometimes especially when you see similar boards and a guy gragging a 400 dollar pot with queen 10.

TheWorstPlayer · #37 01-17-2005, 05:43 AM

Yup. I think the key for me at this point is to use my knowledge of the other players to try to avoid marginal situations. Against a tight player, I won't even call a raise with AQ or AJ. Against a loose aggressive player, I will certainly call a check/raise with TPTK. I don't think I am giving up too much value, though, by not calling raises with AQ and AJ because in general the games I play in are just not that aggressive preflop and when they are it is usually from one player so I can call his raises with those hands while dumping them to raises from the other guys. Maybe some of the better players on here will pitch in at some point and let us know what they think on this topic (probably when they wake up.)

octop · #38 01-17-2005, 05:47 AM

AJ i would fold so fast to a raise Ive had trouble letting go of AQ suited to raises. The real problem is when I called I wasnt think about what to do on certain flops.
I couldnt check the flop- I really hate giving free cards and I would rther know where Im at right away.

TheWorstPlayer · #39 01-17-2005, 05:53 AM

Since he is a tight player and he raised UTG, I think it is fairly safe to put him on AA, KK, QQ, JJ, AK, AQs, right? So most likely you are dominated and shouldn't have called, but let's ignore that fact. Once you have called and got your perfect flop, still you are either behind, in which case free cards can only help you, tied, in which case free cards can't hurt you, or ahead of AK or JJ which are three and two outers, respectively, so free cards don't hurt you much. I would certainly check the flop here, keep the pot small since you only have TPTK, and wait to see what he does on the turn. I really don't see how it can hurt you on this uncoordinated flop.

josie_wales · #40 01-17-2005, 02:07 PM

Hey

It seems that a lot of people are saying that this fella raised UTG. But he raised in MP, thus even a tight player will raise a few more hands that just QQ, KK, AA, AK.

I mean, would it be totally unreasonable for him to be raising with TT? 99?

If he knows he can outplay the other players then that may well be what he is doing.

I am not saying that you should have called preflop but if you do, a different line may be in order. He knows you are tight right? So he may well think that he can blow you off your hand by check raising you with AK/JJ/TT.

Again, it is a risky hand to play, and folding is (I think) the best option. BUT if you do find yourself in this situation again, you can save yourself some money in the future.

Try this:

When he checks the flop and there is $23 in the pot, you should just check behind.

Then, on the turn, if he bets, it could well be KK/AA --- OR it could be JJ/TT/AK and he is assuming that you missed.

Now, *if* you call you are still risking the same $25 as you did by betting the flop.

BUT, now he will (most likely) only bet the river if he has AQ beat as he will be scared that you have the Q.

Again, folding preflop is probably the best option...But betting the flop may be an even bigger mistake. There are no real scare cards out there and your bet stands to gain you little.

jw