Flop A set of aces on a ragged board...

[GMan42]

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There's a fairly good chance that CO is testing you to see if you have an A or a lower pair. If you call, I wouldn't be surprised if he checks to you on the turn. I say raise.

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Yeah, but if that's his line, CO may fold to your raise right there or check-fold the turn, whereas calling here might leave him enough doubt to check-call the turn & river...in this case calling would earn you an extra 1 1/2 or 2 BB from CO alone. I also don't mind if the other two players come for a ride--I think the chance that they have a deuce or trey are small enough, and I have a decent chance to fill up even if they hit their miracle straight.

[Pairadux]

Come on! You flop 3 aces, 2 of them are in your hand, and you're scared of someone who MIGHT hit a gutshot with a 2 or a 3 in their hand in a raised pot. We play poker for this very situations, instead you advocate raising everyone out of the pot so that they wise up and put you on AK, fold on the turn, giving you 5 BB as bounty for your "monster" hand. At least you can say that the 2 that joe schmoe in the CO seat called the raise with didn't come back to bite us in the ass one out of 20 times!

and it probably is closer to 20-1 on that gutshot in view of the times when the gutshot comes and then the board pairs, or vice versa.

For the record I would call the flop, call or bet (but not raise) the turn, and then raise the river.

The one thing I would NOT do is be even the least bit scared about losing the hand to anyone else at the table, regardless of holding!

That's just stupid!!!!

I'll bet you play on party poker, don't you.

[Firefly]

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For the record I would call the flop, call or bet (but not raise) the turn, and then raise the river.


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Ahh, so your the guy's aces i'm cracking all the time.
Seriously, giving people cheap cards when you have tremendous equity is foolish.

[Stu Pidasso]

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Come on! You flop 3 aces, 2 of them are in your hand, and you're scared of someone who MIGHT hit a gutshot with a 2 or a 3 in their hand in a raised pot.

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All of the opponents limped in prior to the raise. Pretending our hero raised and then all the opponents cold called makes you look foolish.

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and it probably is closer to 20-1 on that gutshot in view of the times when the gutshot comes and then the board pairs, or vice versa.

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I know you're new, but you won't gain any credibility in this forum if you just continue to pull figures out of thin air to make your case.

When you consider the cards coming in on either the turn of river the odds are

Gutshot 5.1:1
OESD 2.2:1
Gutshot hitting without set filling to full house 8.1:1

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instead you advocate raising everyone out of the pot so that they wise up and put you on AK, fold on the turn, giving you 5 BB as bounty for your "monster" hand.

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There is a good chance that happens anyways even if you just call the flop.

You're in a game where people routinely call capped flops in the hope of picking up some sort of draw but will fold to a single bet on the turn if they airball. You cripple the deck and some shmoe is giving you action. A lot of times you will get lucky and trap the buffoons in this hand between you and an underset or 2 pair. I'm advocating protecting your hand's vulnerabilities while taking advantage of the action that actually exist.

You advocate leaving your hand vulnerable and hope that you get some action on later more expensive streets. Streets where your opponents are more apt to fold to any aggression from the preflop raiser.

Stu

[BigEndian]

It doesn't matter how you play it from here as long as chips are put in on every street.

- Jim

[Pairadux]

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I'm advocating protecting your hand's vulnerabilities while taking advantage of the action that actually exist.

You advocate leaving your hand vulnerable and hope that you get some action on later more expensive streets. Streets where your opponents are more apt to fold to any aggression from the preflop raiser.

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Well stated. However, many players who see the preflop raiser turn into a chicken on the flop and turn by calling instead of raising, especially when an ace is out there, will be apt to call you down/start betting with any pair because they sense weakness. Furthermore with position on your opponents as in this situation raising will drive out the UTG/MP2 overcallers. I know this is what you want, but your chances are so much greater than theirs that you want their money in the pot. The line I am advocating will make you more money, but there may be a slightly greater risk that something horrific and unlikely will happen, like someone hitting their gutshot without you hitting a boat. Is this slightly increased risk big enough to justify forfeiting the extra money one might make by slowplaying here? "Columbus took a chance, so I'm going to take one, too" - Cloutier. Another final point is that if these players are weak enough to limp with a deuce or trey here then what makes one think they will fold even if they are not offered spectacular pot odds. The net effect being that the best draws like the gutshot will stay in regardless, while Ax and those hands that are basically drawing dead like a middle pocket pair will fold, so you'll make a little money but not as much as you could if you trick them into thinking you missed. You might get some good action off someone who rivers 2-pair, or somethin. When you've got 2 aces in your hand, and the third one flops, the hand is a lock, in my opinion, and one should not be thinking much about how he might potentially lose the hand. The only question is how to milk the most cash out of them.

[Todd]

Two thoughts occur to me.

1. If you are playing with people who are familiar with you (and I always end up with 3 or 4 on each table that I have played a lot with) You might consider playing this hand the way you would play AK or AQ, or even KK. If you play it too soft, you might slow down your opponants. With those hands you would probably raise (?).

2. In the low limit games I play most often, I think that the choice is pretty even. Sometimes when I raise everyone folds, including the bettor, since he was just checking to see if you have an A or something like KK, QQ, or KQs etc that you might give up. S0, I guess I would tend to call and see I you can attach the limpers to the pot. I would raise on the turn no matter what card fell, unless it was the case A, then I would probably call, hoping that bettor would keep betting.

No guarantees though, and I think fearing a strt on that board is a little over paranoid, simple cuz those cards just dont get as much play as when the brd is AJT.

T