Me Moron (i.e. betting when you expect to call) - Page 3

rharless · #21 01-06-2004, 03:55 PM

Yes, I see my hand is different from that sample with respect to the relative position of the overcards to the board, vs the relative position of the overcards to my hand. Also, obviously, I have a pair to go with which is different than the example.

I referenced that example mainly b/c my general topic is about making a flop bet into a large field with a thin holding that can improve. I believe it is also mentioned in that section that if you are going to call a bet it is often better to bet. Wish I had my book with me.

Although you did not clearly state a preference either way on the flop bet, let's assume you disagree with it, and if that is the case, how "large" of a mistake do you think the flop bet is?

Homer · #22 01-06-2004, 04:08 PM

Although you did not clearly state a preference either way on the flop bet, let's assume you disagree with it, and if that is the case, how "large" of a mistake do you think the flop bet is?

I don't know that I think betting is a mistake, I just think it's not as important to do so in this case as it is in the HPFAP example.

The more likely it is that my opponents will fold overcards for a single flop bet, the more likely it is that I'll bet out. The more likely it is that the last player will auto-bet with nothing, the more likely it is that I'll check-raise. If I have no opponent knowledge, then honestly, I don't know whether betting or checking is best.

Hopefully others will respond and help us to decide which play is best, generally speaking.

-- Homer

rharless · #23 01-06-2004, 04:20 PM

At the very least, your post has helped me to understand the finer points of the HPFAP example more clearly, which is good. The first time I read that example I did not understand it at all. Then I started to grasp it. Now I think I'm on my way to saying I actually understand it. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

An LP auto-bet was not out of the question (a Known Good Player/2+2er and then another guy who liked to be in pots) but honestly, I was more just thinking too-simply that hey, I can bet my pair + five outs into an 8-player pot.

bernie · #24 01-06-2004, 04:58 PM

she gave an example of the hand from the section she got it from. it's from a multiway pot. the bet is also designed to get some overcards to fold, giving your hand a better chance then being drawn out on. it's a little more than just a semi bluff. the hand mentioned above, as also states in the book, may have other outs other than just the gutshot. you're also trying to fold possible better kickers than you have if one of your cards hits and you would be in the lead.

there's also benefits of actually trying it to get the feel of how the play works. gotta try it sometime.

b

Bob T. · #25 01-06-2004, 05:03 PM

After the hand, he called me a Moron and was clearly Displeased.

That alone, should be enough to tell you that you did well [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img].

I'm not sure if I like the flop bet, I usually bet hands like this if I have three or fewer opponent, but with this many, and such a good chance that you are behind, I would probably check, and see where we are when the betting comes back to me.

After the initial bet, you played correctly throughout.

CrackerZack · #26 01-06-2004, 05:23 PM

But also any 2 overcards to her hand are likely to have raised PF also. If you get 88 or 99 to fold here, tremendous. Doubtful any T will, but whatever, you can improve.

rharless · #27 01-06-2004, 05:34 PM

I do usually check-and-see. Call 1 bet if I'm close to closing the action, fold for 2 bets, c/r the LP bet, ya da ya da yada. I do like check-and-see because it's like you are moving to the end of the line and giving yourself late position action for this one round. With this many players, I actually prefer to be EP or LP but not MP.

Just trying things out I guess -- trying to understand better some of the Loose Games concepts.

I'm do think though that after all the posts in this thread, that if the flop bet is "wrong," it is only a bit wrong. And I probably made up for "loss" somewhat by showing down an advertising hand.

And, if the flop bet is "right", it is probably only a bit right.

The range of wrong to right is probably narrow enough that I am happy that I choose the one that makes me look worse and gains me action on my future hands. I'm always the one who is too tight.

CrackerZack · #28 01-06-2004, 06:00 PM

I'm with you on the flop bet. This board is weak-tight as all hell. God help them if they ever have to play 7 card stud. Good bet, good hand, good response in the chat window.

Bob T. · #29 01-06-2004, 06:34 PM

The range of wrong to right is probably narrow enough that I am happy that I choose the one that makes me look worse and gains me action on my future hands. I'm always the one who is too tight.

Yeah, as usual, CM is probably right, alternating between betting, and checking is probably the right course.

trillig · #30 01-06-2004, 06:42 PM

Nah, your opponents the moron for not realizing that just top pair with ace kicker is very vulnerable, and obviously gave you no respect, and proved it with his 'moron' jab.

You could have beat him with T7s which plenty of people would play, and low 2 pairs even. He sucks... but you knew that already. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

-t