Axs hand 6: please comment - Page 3

astroglide · #21 11-25-2003, 05:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
1. If he's bluffing, I'm happy to a) make him pay one more small bet now or 2) have him give up right now and give me the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]
if he's on a pure bluff he's not going to call a raise, and he has no hand/no draw. that's what a bluff is. wanting the pot immediately from a bluffer is bad poker no matter how you slice it. if you're afraid of a 4 making a running straight or some other bizarre hand, you're not playing the game properly.
[ QUOTE ]
If he has a 2 flush and checks it through, I'm losing a little bit here, but gaining a ton of information. If he has a 2 flush and bets his position, I'm happy to charge him another small bet now to see the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
you're not losing a little bit, you're losing infinity. you are giving him UNLIMITED odds to turn a flush.
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not happy if this is the case. Bad outcome, but I think the least likely. I'll say Ax with x=6,7,8 or 10 (not including 9). Others would raise pre-flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
others WOULD raise preflop. if you'd like, i can provide you with several HUNDRED sample hands from party's 3/6 games where people limped with ak, aq, and aj. if you haven't observed this behavior yet you must not be playing very many hands.
[ QUOTE ]
Yes, I knew the odds calculation was coming. Have to weigh the odds vs the possibility of being way behind here to a set or bigger two pair. I don't expect to see 93 of any flavor; A3 or A9 or any set will send me a re-raise message. In general I won't draw to 5 outers in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]
so that means in general you'll fold to flush draws that are willing to 3bet the flop heads up when they have position. assuming it gets them a free river card, they are paying a small bet on the flop to save a big bet on the turn. considering the fact that you're willing to give up an ace, it would be correct for somebody to make this play 100% of the time - and many will.

rkiray · #22 11-25-2003, 05:29 PM

I still don't like the cr on the flop. If you had the flush draw then I'd like it. I think after cring you should definitely bet the turn. Since you have improved on the turn I I'd call the raise. You are probably behind, but you have outs and could be ahead. Against a rock I would fold. If the player was very aggressive or very tricky I might 3 bet.

ResidentParanoid · #23 11-25-2003, 05:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
wanting the pot immediately from a bluffer is bad poker

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm happy to end the hand now and win with what I consider a weak hand.

[ QUOTE ]
you're not losing a little bit, you're losing infinity.

[/ QUOTE ]

There goes my bankroll. For life. This is just a funny overstatement. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Think about it.

[ QUOTE ]
i can provide you with several HUNDRED sample hands from party's 3/6 games where people limped with ak, aq, and aj.

[/ QUOTE ]

We'll have to agree to disagree here. I haven't seen that much of this, especially in this situation.

[ QUOTE ]
so that means in general you'll fold to flush draws that are willing to 3bet the flop heads up when they have position.

[/ QUOTE ]

In general I wouldn't fold. Here I would, when I don't have a strong read on the player as being overly aggressive or good, and when I don't like my hand that much anyway.

Appreciate the comments.

ResidentParanoid · #24 11-25-2003, 05:48 PM

Oh yeah, I've missed unimproved pocket pairs and hands like K9s that could easily limp pre-flop and then bet when checked to on the button here. I want to raise those hands too to clear the deck and get it heads up, or take it down now.

astroglide · #25 11-25-2003, 06:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm happy to end the hand now and win with what I consider a weak hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
against a PURE BLUFF, aka NO HAND. it is heads up, and you have a pair of aces. the only way he can outdraw you is runner-runner. until you learn to embrace these scenarios, you are losing money with this line of thought.
[ QUOTE ]
There goes my bankroll. For life. This is just a funny overstatement. Think about it.

[/ QUOTE ]
it's not an overstatement. it costs him 0 to hit a roughly 4:1 shot. those are infinite pot odds. if you continue to lay them, you are losing money.
[ QUOTE ]
We'll have to agree to disagree here. I haven't seen that much of this, especially in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]
it's not a matter of agreement or disagreement. i can provide tons of hand histories in which limping with ak/aq/aj has occured, on exactly the party 3/6 game. i have 25,000 hands in my db right now. i see the behavior every day.

astroglide · #26 11-25-2003, 06:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Oh yeah, I've missed unimproved pocket pairs and hands like K9s that could easily limp pre-flop and then bet when checked to on the button here. I want to raise those hands too to clear the deck and get it heads up, or take it down now.

[/ QUOTE ]
a 2-outer and a 5-outer respectively. you should WANT them to chase heads up with a small pot.

ResidentParanoid · #27 11-25-2003, 09:44 PM

Well, we've pretty much staked out our positions here. If you want to disagree, I can live with that. You play it your way.

But I can't resist one more shot at this comment:

[ QUOTE ]
you're not losing a little bit, you're losing infinity.

[/ QUOTE ]

That giant sucking sound you hear is my entire bankroll disappearing into the infintie gravitational singularity created by my check. Wow, that was expensive.