Play A Hand With The Triple Threat (Results & Comments)

[grandgnu]

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You donked this hand. This is a flop that you can't bet weakly; a full-pot or near full-pot bet is very necessary here. Don't be sad if he folds because he's either drawing live (with an A) or not going to put any more money in the pot anyway (small PP, suited non-diamond connectors).

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So you believe that if I bet the flop strongly that Villian would have folded? A/J is a viable holding for him, as would be a number of other hands that fit well with this flop.

I figure to be ahead, yes, but my opponent (if they have connected with this flop) is likely to stick around regardless of my bet. Also, if I am ahead, I want to extract chips from him with this strong holding, these type of hands don't happen all that often. I may have an opportunity to stack him.

Again, I feel that by betting large on the flop, all I accomplish is this:

1. If my opponent is on a weak holding compared to this flop (say 9/9 or something along those lines) he's going to fold and I won't get anymore chips from him

2. If my opponent has me beat with A/J, this pot is going to become too large for me to get away from

3. If my opponent has a drawing hand (to a straight or flush or both, plus a pair) it is unlikely a large bet is going to push him out. Whether I bet the 120, or I make it 150 or 200, he's likely going to call.

I'm not adverse to betting more on the turn, but I figured I was still ahead of my opponent and had additional outs to the 2nd nut flush plus a boat on the river.

My 200 bet into the 450 pot was an attempt to keep him around and paying me off. When he check-raised in that spot, I was no longer certain I had the best hand. He could easily be on A/J with the ace of diamonds, and thus ahead of me.

Pushing would only cause me to go broke in that situation unless I sucked out.

If I'm still ahead, but my opponent has outs, he's shown by his bet that he's ready to commit his entire stack to the hand. So, my options on the turn are:

1. FOLD: No way jose, I still may be ahead, I have position when the river comes and I have outs if I'm behind

2. PUSH/RAISE: This will most certainly be called by an A/J hand, and if my opponent has the Ace or the Jack of diamonds (plus some other card that doesn't make the straight) then he's likely calling as well. This doesn't allow me to get off the hand when the river comes and provides my opponent with a straight. And if my opponent has something like K/10 he may lay down and I lose chips I might have gained on the river.

3. CALL: By calling I have half my starting stack left and position on the river. The only "bad" cards for me would likely be an Ace or a Jack. A diamond I won't worry about too much, since he must have the Ace of diamonds to beat me, and I'm ready to go broke in that spot. If the board pairs on the river, I'm most likely ahead unless it comes with a King and he was on K/10 and outdrew me.

[grandgnu]

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maybe another poster can explain some of ur reasoning flaws cuz im not very good at expressing myself sumtimes

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Is it the platinum "toof"?

[/ QUOTE ]yea man whatever you say, u obviously are missing what everyone in these threads have been telling u so why should i even bother

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Don't be playa hatin' cuz!

I'm just messing with you man. I completely understand why people would bet larger amounts, and in most situations I would.

But this situation I had position and I was heads-up and likely ahead of my opponet with re-draws if I was behind. I didn't see a point in putting all my chips in after the action on the turn, when I couldn't be certain I still had the best hand.

[TomHimself]

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3. If my opponent has a drawing hand (to a straight or flush or both, plus a pair) it is unlikely a large bet is going to push him out. Whether I bet the 120, or I make it 150 or 200, he's likely going to call.

[/ QUOTE ] y do u want to keep the pot small?
u want to keep the pot small for situations like top pair/decnt kicker etc

[TomHimself]

yea i also call the turn reraise and not 3-bet and fold on the river fwiw

[grandgnu]

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3. If my opponent has a drawing hand (to a straight or flush or both, plus a pair) it is unlikely a large bet is going to push him out. Whether I bet the 120, or I make it 150 or 200, he's likely going to call.

[/ QUOTE ] y do u want to keep the pot small?
u want to keep the pot small for situations like top pair/decnt kicker etc

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I'm keeping the pot smaller to avoid being pot-stuck when there is a very real possibility of my being outdrawn or behind.

But, I'm also betting smaller to keep my opponent in the hand. See, I'm not trying to win the hand right away, I'm trying to extract maximum chips from my opponent. I have a strong hand and I want to get as many chips as I can for it.

I do this because of position. My opponent is going to have a much harder time pushing me around without a very strong hand, because I get to act last. This provides me with a bit more info about his potential holdings.

If I was out of position, his bets or raises could have a variety more interpetations than if he's the one out of position.

[grandgnu]

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yea i also call the turn reraise and not 3-bet and fold on the river fwiw

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The fold on the river is pretty standard and easy, I can't see any 2+2er doing anything but fold. I just found the flop and turn portions of this hand to be interesting, and I appreciate your input. Sorry if I can be a bit stubborn about my feelings on a particular hand, I meant no offense.

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You donked this hand. This is a flop that you can't bet weakly; a full-pot or near full-pot bet is very necessary here. Don't be sad if he folds because he's either drawing live (with an A) or not going to put any more money in the pot anyway (small PP, suited non-diamond connectors).

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So you believe that if I bet the flop strongly that Villian would have folded? A/J is a viable holding for him, as would be a number of other hands that fit well with this flop.

I figure to be ahead, yes, but my opponent (if they have connected with this flop) is likely to stick around regardless of my bet. Also, if I am ahead, I want to extract chips from him with this strong holding, these type of hands don't happen all that often. I may have an opportunity to stack him.

Again, I feel that by betting large on the flop, all I accomplish is this:

1. If my opponent is on a weak holding compared to this flop (say 9/9 or something along those lines) he's going to fold and I won't get anymore chips from him

2. If my opponent has me beat with A/J, this pot is going to become too large for me to get away from

3. If my opponent has a drawing hand (to a straight or flush or both, plus a pair) it is unlikely a large bet is going to push him out. Whether I bet the 120, or I make it 150 or 200, he's likely going to call.

I'm not adverse to betting more on the turn, but I figured I was still ahead of my opponent and had additional outs to the 2nd nut flush plus a boat on the river.

My 200 bet into the 450 pot was an attempt to keep him around and paying me off. When he check-raised in that spot, I was no longer certain I had the best hand. He could easily be on A/J with the ace of diamonds, and thus ahead of me.

Pushing would only cause me to go broke in that situation unless I sucked out.

If I'm still ahead, but my opponent has outs, he's shown by his bet that he's ready to commit his entire stack to the hand. So, my options on the turn are:

1. FOLD: No way jose, I still may be ahead, I have position when the river comes and I have outs if I'm behind

2. PUSH/RAISE: This will most certainly be called by an A/J hand, and if my opponent has the Ace or the Jack of diamonds (plus some other card that doesn't make the straight) then he's likely calling as well. This doesn't allow me to get off the hand when the river comes and provides my opponent with a straight. And if my opponent has something like K/10 he may lay down and I lose chips I might have gained on the river.

3. CALL: By calling I have half my starting stack left and position on the river. The only "bad" cards for me would likely be an Ace or a Jack. A diamond I won't worry about too much, since he must have the Ace of diamonds to beat me, and I'm ready to go broke in that spot. If the board pairs on the river, I'm most likely ahead unless it comes with a King and he was on K/10 and outdrew me.

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I'm sorry to be rude, but you've misplayed and are arguing with basically everyone who responded to you (I do the same, and I hope people are rude to me in response).

1) The logic that a hand doesn't happen very often is insignificant. EV is EV is EV is EV. Play the way that gets you the most EV because you like EV and don't care about anything else.

2) The logic that you're trying to avoid getting your money in against AJ is just as flawed because if he has AJ, you're screwed and you're going to get stacked or stack him.

3) If you think villain's not folding a lot of hands that are a dog to you even if you make a big bet and that the majority of the hands that villain could have fall into this category, you should make a big bet. Making a small bet just leaves money on the table when you're ahead.

Bet bigger.

Again, a really good marker for how much you should bet (once you've decided to bet) is how likely the flop is to have hit your opponent. When the flop comes down KQT with 2 diamonds after a pfr, your bet should be bigger than when it comes down 269r.

[kuro]

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Getting all your chips in as a favorite doesn't mean squat. If your opponent still has a 25-35% chance to win, and they like their hand and put their money in, you lose your positional advantage and you leave the results up to the variance of the cards.

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The above statement is just so wrong. How can you think of passing up edges that big early in a MTT? Finding spots where you are better than 75% to win to commit your chips are few and far between. That's like saying that if you were in a battle of the blinds if the small blind showed you AQ after pushing that you would fold AK because he might suck out 25% of the time. It's just incredibly weak-tight thinking.

[grandgnu]

Alright, so post-flop it's checked to me, I bet pot and Villian calls.

Turn is 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and checked to me again. Now I have a much larger pot and thus must bet more chips, and then he check-raises me. Now what?

Fine, I caused my opponent to make a mistake, but I've also made it much more difficult to extract myself from the hand in decent shape.

Had I been out of position, I would have been far more agressive in my betting.

In this situation, I wasn't too concerned with protecting my hand, I was attempting to extract the maximum amount of chips without pushing out what I believed was a weaker holding that would likely pay me off.

Unfortunately the turn complicated things, and presented me with a situation where I was no longer sure where I stood. Since I couldn't be certain any longer that I was ahead (as I had believed on the flop), I opted to call the check-raise and see the river with position.

Had the river been anything but an Ace or a Jack, I would have put all my chips in. While I wasn't certain if I was ahead, I still believed it to be possible, and figured if that was the case that only an Ace or Jack would scare me on the river. The odds of either of those cards hitting I felt were slim enough to not need to push on the turn.

And if I did push the turn and get called by a made flush or straight, I would have set myself up with only one card to save me.

EDIT: A 9 might give me pause as well, since a Jack could be possible in my opponents hand. The Jack or Ace of diamonds on the river would not scare me, since I'd either have the nuts or 2nd nuts and be ready to go. So I figured if my opponent needed those cards they had two less outs as well.

[TomHimself]

what is turn is 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

if its a diamond and u bet he CR and u 3-bet