Atlanta vs. Miami (November 6) - Opportunity Knocks in a Big Way

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Sharps think Atlanta is overrated . . . Squares moreso think Atlanta (and Vick in particular) is overrated.

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Huh? If everyone thinks that Atlanta is overrated, then who do they think is doing this overrating?

(By the way, Atlanta is overrated. Vick is still the most inaccurate starting QB in the league, and their defense has taken a step back from last year.)

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Vick's value as a first down-maker is incalculable and changes the way defenses line up against the Falcons on every play. On the other hand, his accuracy, and pass vision, is not at all where it should be for a 5th year player or even a 25 year old. I think Toast would agree with and concede to me on both points.

[VarlosZ]

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Vick's value as a first down-maker is incalculable and changes the way defenses line up against the Falcons on every play.

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I agree, but the fact that he's a below average passer makes it something of a wash. He's a fine QB, but he has (in most circles) an elite rep, which is crazy. Yes, he makes uniquely great plays with his legs and punches holes in opposing defenses by his mere presence, but seemingly every other play he misses an open receiver, or fails to hit one in stride (thus nixing valuable YAC), or throws the ball to the safety, or tries to make something happen with his legs instead of throwing the ball away and gets sacked.

[natedogg]

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Vick's value as a first down-maker is incalculable and changes the way defenses line up against the Falcons on every play.

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I agree, but the fact that he's a below average passer makes it something of a wash. He's a fine QB, but he has (in most circles) an elite rep, which is crazy. Yes, he makes uniquely great plays with his legs and punches holes in opposing defenses by his mere presence, but seemingly every other play he misses an open receiver, or fails to hit one in stride (thus nixing valuable YAC), or throws the ball to the safety, or tries to make something happen with his legs instead of throwing the ball away and gets sacked.

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Worst trade ever: Vick for LT? Atlanta got jobbed by San Diego on that one.

natedogg

[scott8]

Really it was Vick for LT and Brees.

[mmbt0ne]

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Worst trade ever: Vick for LT? Atlanta got jobbed by San Diego on that one.

natedogg

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Elle Au Elle

I'd do it twice more if I had the chance.

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I agree, but the fact that he's a below average passer makes it something of a wash.

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I totally, completely disagree.

In addition, LT and Brees is 2 big contracts, Vick is 1. Speaking of Brees, how often do you see him run for 1st downs on 3rd and long when pass coverage is sharp? (and with Atlanta's weak receiving corps, it usually is). I don't think you guys fully appreciate what Michael Vick does to change the way defenses play. He makes the opposing defense stay on the field, huffing and puffing as he keeps drives alive with running first downs, and demoralizes them (Toast's argument from 2 weeks ago) over the course of 60 minutes. Even a RB as great as LT can be stopped or slowed with 8 men in the box, only Brees' success can make them go down to 7. Real football isn't play in a fantasy football world...the mere 30 yards Vick uses to pick up first downs is not calculable in the standard way.

Also, I think it's a leap to assume Atlanta would have smartly chosen LT at #5 overall in 2001.

However, all this said, I still think Atlanta is overvalued and at best rated equally to their current ability. Their defense is very weak.

[VarlosZ]

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I don't think you guys fully appreciate what Michael Vick does to change the way defenses play. He makes the opposing defense stay on the field, huffing and puffing as he keeps drives alive with running first downs, and demoralizes them (Toast's argument from 2 weeks ago) over the course of 60 minutes.

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I'd be interested in evidence that long drives "demoralize" the defense and cause them to play worse, or that the defense is hit harder by fatigue than the offense. Announcers talk about those phenomena all the time, but I've seen no real evidence for their existence, and they should show up in the statistics if you look hard enough (if they're there, that is).

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. . . the mere 30 yards Vick uses to pick up first downs is not calculable in the standard way.

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Then neither are the bad passes and avoidable sacks that cost Atlanta first downs. His bad passing squanders almost as many opportunities as his ability to run creates (which is saying something, I know).

[sublime]

So whats the line going to be? What would you need to bet Atl?

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I'd be interested in evidence that long drives "demoralize" the defense and cause them to play worse, or that the defense is hit harder by fatigue than the offense. Announcers talk about those phenomena all the time, but I've seen no real evidence for their existence, and they should show up in the statistics if you look hard enough (if they're there, that is).

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Well thanks for picking out 1 point of about 5. I'll assume you agree with the rest.

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Then neither are the bad passes and avoidable sacks that cost Atlanta first downs.

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Every QB makes bad passes at many times during a game. Rank all of their stats down a bit then. Since I agree his accuracy is not good, I consider it fortunate they only call about 30 pass plays per game (20-25 of which result in pass attempts).

Vick changes the way defenses play. Give him Manning's receivers and I'd bet we hear the accuracy issues (unjustifiably) go away. He's got nothing to work with right now.

[CCx]

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Give him Manning's receivers and I'd bet we hear the accuracy issues (unjustifiably) go away. He's got nothing to work with right now.

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There is no receiver on Indianapolis, in the NFL, or the college ranks that is either 11 feet tall or equipped with Go-Go-Gadget arms.