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#21
08-25-2005, 05:04 PM
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Re: Looks standard (LC if it is)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] And as Baronzeus said, he probably won't call with a hand that doesn't have him beat. [/ QUOTE ] this is almost certianly not true, unless this is an extremely rare breed of 100 VPIPer who folds a lot on the river. since having PA HUD with the showdown hands seens, i've been amused very often as to the kinds of hands loose people call you with on the river, esp on paired boards. [/ QUOTE ] Ahh sorry he isn't VPIP 100, his username is VIP1000. I can see how that got confusing. 
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#22
08-25-2005, 05:12 PM
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Re: Looks standard (LC if it is)
This hand reminds me a bit of one of Ed Miller's post. It's a different situation but it's a good post and definetly worth reading if you haven't already. Anyway, in this hand there is a flush draw on the flop and you're up against multiple opponents, and because of this, I think you played the hand perfectly. I like the flop raise because VIP could be donking you with a lot of hands here, and if its 3bets back to you you can fold. I like the turn bet as well - you pay the same amount as if you had checked behind on the turn and called a river bet but you charge the draw - and isn't that why you're still in the pot, because you think you're ahead of a draw often enough to see a showdown? I would be more inclined to check behind the turn and maybe call a river bet if the turn was a diamond. Otherwise, I think betting the turn is better - you can fold to a raise and probably call a river donk depending on what card it is. Assuming you played the way you did I like the check behind on the river for the reason that you already made.
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#23
08-25-2005, 05:18 PM
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Re: Looks standard (LC if it is)
Why is everyone so eager to put our opponent on a flush draw, and why does everyone want to raise the flop "because a flush draw could be out"?
I feel like a pocket pair is a very likely holding for our opponent, in addition to a flush draw, nothing, or maybe the lone A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Raising the flop doesn't really do you much good against a flush draw--they are not going to fold and you are giving them a chance to three-bet, making the pot quite big and not putting you in the greatest spot in the world on the turn depending on the action. That's why I really favor just calling the flop--the flush draws will call or raise just like if you had raised, a K will call or raise just like if you had raised, but the benefit is that people will call you incorrectly with hands like J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and even 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. whereas they will correctly fold these hands for two cold almost every time. You make a lot more when one of these hands puts one SB into the pot than you do by charging a 33% to-hit flush draw one extra bet to draw, when they are going to the river anyway.
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#24
08-25-2005, 05:20 PM
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Re: Looks standard (LC if it is)
well dude if he is very passive and he is betting into you, it is a problem. but i am not willing to narrow his range to just a K at this point and feel there are a number of hands that might pay off.
Any PP or a picked up piece on the turn, river? Hands like A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. It is pretty close and decision lies in how passive he really is, my river action would depend on how full the moon looked at that time.
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#25
08-25-2005, 05:20 PM
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Re: Looks standard (LC if it is)
Part of the reason is against this guy I can easily fold to a 3bet, and the other reason is I want to fold out any aces which are getting almost correct odds to call, and part of the reason is that I want to bet the turn to get a free showdown. I dont think this guy donks a mid pocket pair on this board considering how passive he is but it's slightly possible.
i could be 100% wrong but I'd rather raise the flop 3 way than just call and give a bunch of backdoor draws the right odds to call.
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#26
08-25-2005, 05:24 PM
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Re: Looks standard (LC if it is)
[ QUOTE ]
i could be 100% wrong but I'd rather raise the flop 3 way than just call and give a bunch of backdoor draws the right odds to call. [/ QUOTE ] Backdoor draws don't have close to the right odds to call you, especially considering that backdoor two pair draws are dead to your QQ. Backdoor draws are usually like 18-1 and worse, not 10-1. A lone ace doesn't have the right odds to call you here either, it would need more like 13-1.
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#27
08-25-2005, 05:26 PM
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Re: Looks standard (LC if it is)
Right i know a lone ace by itself doesnt by AxX[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] does and so does Ax suited spades and so does AQo for the backdoor straight.
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#30
08-25-2005, 07:39 PM
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Re: Looks standard (LC if it is)
[ QUOTE ]
Ahh sorry he isn't VPIP 100, his username is VIP1000. I can see how that got confusing. [/ QUOTE ] Oh, sorry i'm dumb... anyways though, i still think that any loose passive player will be calling this river with a pretty wide set of hands. Of course a K is possible, but trips probably would have CR'ed turn or 3bet flop. And you'll get called by any PP, any 9, any 3, any Ahigh, and also probably a lot of Q or J high hands might call here as well.
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