it must be hot outside b/c i just coldcalled - Page 3

madscout · #21 07-25-2005, 01:41 PM

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i think the bet achieves nothing and would only achieve something if u bet the turn again.....(which would be a poor move)

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I'm not defending OP's play, but it is possible the flop bet earned him a free look at the river, FWIW.

W. Deranged · #22 07-25-2005, 01:45 PM

Jameser,

I understand the cold-call is an aberration, so I don't want to drive it into the ground. In general, I would be careful about letting pre-flop (or later) decisions be dictated to strongly by reads on individual players. Just because the raiser may be light doesn't mean that others who enter the pot won't tend to have stronger hands; hence, your hand will still decline in value. Other considerations, such as the reduction in implied odds on the flush potential given the two SB price, really do not relate to the quality of raiser's hands at all.

As for the flop bet, I've been thinking and I can't come up with any good reason to do it. Unless you think that you are generating huge bluff equity with the bet somehow, the bet accomplishes very little. Getting a free river card is not that useful, either, because you don't even have many draws you want to see. Very often, your bet is simply playing into the hands of opponents who are slowplaying/waiting to check-raise. You probably benefit the most on a Fundamental Theorem basis by letting the flop check through.

jat850 · #23 07-25-2005, 02:00 PM

I'm a relative newcomer, but in reading this post only krimson answered the question asked by jamester - to raise or not to raise the river. IMO, Well analyzed about the the high probability of facing a chop/chop on the question asked.

B Dids · #24 07-25-2005, 02:02 PM

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oops, i forgot the reads: utg-52/3/1.2 and utg+2-64/18/1

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A- these are not reads, these are numbers. Boo

B- If you want to play this hand, just 3-bet. The flop bet is pointless.

callmedonnie · #25 07-25-2005, 02:37 PM

nope.

thejameser · #26 07-25-2005, 02:49 PM

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the preflop raiser earlier in the session raised J10o UTG, so he was a light raiser.

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So why not 3-bet and try to isolate?

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back from lunch. okay, so say i 3-bet PF. when checked to me do you say bet or check?

thejameser · #27 07-25-2005, 02:51 PM

fwiw, i never raise this river. i was sort of kidding.

crunchy1 · #28 07-25-2005, 03:12 PM

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the preflop raiser earlier in the session raised J10o UTG, so he was a light raiser.

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So why not 3-bet and try to isolate?

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back from lunch. okay, so say i 3-bet PF. when checked to me do you say bet or check?

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Assuming that your isolation attempt was successful and the blinds/UTG folded and UTG+ called then bet the flop. I think that QQx is a pretty decent flop for an iso attempt. Depending what your OP read of "donk" truely means - I'd expect to take this pot down on the flop > 50% of the time.

thejameser · #29 07-25-2005, 03:24 PM

utg was not folding pf.

crunchy1 · #30 07-25-2005, 03:36 PM

I still bet the flop. I think you fold a number of better hands betting this flop.

EDIT: I should've said - you'll fold a number of better hands that UTG holds. I'm still unsure what your read of donk means for them and so I don't know about UTG+1. UTG is probably folding many hands to that board when he doesn't hold a spade, Q or T.