33 - Page 3

Jake (The Snake) · #21 07-11-2005, 11:20 PM

If he will, yes. But one of my points is that I don't think the BB folds nearly enough in my experience. Even without considering the BB in the hand you only have 40% equity against the original raiser. Obviously, BB is going to have a big hand sometimes so you're true equity is even less than 40%.

So you need to be very sure BB will fold all but premium hands AND that the raiser is weak enough to fold the flop extremely often for it to be profitable. Now that I think about it more, I can't see how this would ever be profitable. Don't you guys do this a lot though? I seem to recall seeing a bunch of threads where this was standard preflop? Links? More explanation? I still can't figure it out.

PokerBob · #22 07-11-2005, 11:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
At a table riddled with passive idiots I don't see how three betting out of the SB to an UTG raise can seem like a good idea. If the table is as you describe the range of hands for UTG includes AA, KK, QQ, and AK and maybe JJ and AQ - do we agree? And now that hte flop has come K high we're going to value bet our 33 so he can call down with his overpair?
Both you and the actual player seem pretty passionate about the play on this hand, but I don't see much to like. What am I missing?

[/ QUOTE ]

I just think it is an interesting situation to discuss. As far as Hollywood's response, he sent it to me via email, and I told him to post it verbatim. He's really not all that riled up about it.

I think you are limiting the pfr's range too much. The OP stated that the donks are passive post-flop, not pre.

Clarkmeister · #23 07-11-2005, 11:32 PM

Call on the river.

Preflop is a fold in a live 4/8 game. The gain from getting the BB to fold is eaten by the rake, leaving you headsup and out of position with a difficult hand to play against a passive UTG raiser with no dead money in the pot. Blech.

ecooke · #24 07-11-2005, 11:33 PM

Fair enough. But I play a ton of live 2/4 and 5/10 and don't know many passive players that open raise UTG with anything less than a premium holding. If my range is too conservative, what range does yours include? KQs, AJs, TT?

And I do think this is an obvious raise or fold out of the SB. I'm just going to fold and will be tough sold that I'm losing value doing so.

oreogod · #25 07-11-2005, 11:46 PM

Im curious...would u three bet this in any position here, or when do u find yourself pulling such a move with low pps?