Who continuation bets?

[PokerBob]

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You are likely folding only the hands that you are already ahead of.

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I disagree. People will fold pp on a board like this.



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Agreed, but the guy with 77 has his hand hovering over the fold button and my hand has no SD value anyway. I'd like to see the turn for free here if I can, as I doubt I can win the pot with a bet with so many opponents.

[TMFS9]

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For all they know, it would be a mistake for them to call. wouldn't it?

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If they were really worried about mistakes they wouldn't of cold called in the first place. These are the opponents that don't even realize you can make a mistake.

[Willluck]

IMO, betting is the best line:
1. You might be able to pick up the pot with a single bet
2. if MP1 folds and the blinds call you can take a free river.
3 You have an okay draw, and your K and Q may still be worth something if you spike a pair.

[DMBFan23]

nah I'm totally down with that, I just find that no one ever worries about drawing dead, improving but losing, closing the action, etc. it's just "hmm I can make two pair or trips". I'm still not sure enough of some of the intangibles (wanting to call a bet anyway, folding people out, etc) to comment on the correctness or incorrectness of betting. I just wanted to guide the discussion in the direction of no one ever folding a pir, cause I find they they rearely do. I agree with the person who posted that ppl can fold a pocket pair here

[ggbman]

I felt this hand was interesting and i'm glad there is some controversy regarding it. Here are some key things to think about.

1.) What better hands (Medium PP's can we fold with this bet)
2.) Will we get raised by medium ace here?
3.) If i check and there is one bet, am i going to call anyway to chase, getting only around 9-1?

Here was my thinking at the time. Since i was not 3 bet preflop, a big ace was unlikely, i can't see someone having better then A-8 to A-10 here, although some players would have just called with AJ preflop i guess. Therefore, i am probably not getting raised all that often on this flop by most passives at 5-10. If we think we are getting raised, then betting is clearly wrong. So if a medium will just call my bet, but bet if i checked to them, it seemed like a good idea to bet for folding equity, to keep the lead in the hand, and to figure out where i am at. Any further thoughts?

[PokerBob]

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I felt this hand was interesting and i'm glad there is some controversy regarding it. Here are some key things to think about.

1.) What better hands (Medium PP's can we fold with this bet)
2.) Will we get raised by medium ace here?
3.) If i check and there is one bet, am i going to call anyway to chase, getting only around 9-1?

Here was my thinking at the time. Since i was not 3 bet preflop, a big ace was unlikely, i can't see someone having better then A-8 to A-10 here, although some players would have just called with AJ preflop i guess. Therefore, i am probably not getting raised all that often on this flop by most passives at 5-10. If we think we are getting raised, then betting is clearly wrong. So if a medium will just call my bet, but bet if i checked to them, it seemed like a good idea to bet for folding equity, to keep the lead in the hand, and to figure out where i am at. Any further thoughts?

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IMO if you DON'T bet, someone will and thus knock out the guy with 77. If no one bets, then the guy with 77 gets a free chance to spike a set, but that isn't the end of the world at worse than 20:1. What does suck though, is getting raised here when you likely could have seen the turn for 1 bet or even free.

[pheasant tail (no 18)]

I usually would in this spot. I essentially autobet w/ 2 opponents and usually check w/ 4 if I miss. Against 3 I like to bet if I plan on calling a bet but not if I want to fold to a bet. Of course all this depends on the players that I'm against.

Here's why I would bet this spot:

1. I would have the odds to chase the gutter for one bet, so why not bet and try to purchase better position. Since I would not have the option of taking a free card, I think this is a perfect example of when Sklansky talks about betting w/ a hand you were going to call w/ anyway. And since hero is PF aggressor, he can represent an ace nicely.

2. It's possible that no aces or jacks are out and medium PP's need a chance to fold and they are right to do so here. Being called by a Jack isn't so bad either.

3. I like it when my opponents get accustomed to me betting when I'm in the lead. I seem to get called down w/ lots of crappy hands when I don't whiff since they tend to remember that time that I didn't have it and/or that time when I was a fish and hit a four outer to their pair.

4. Betting the flop makes a free turn card SLIGHTLY more likely.

5. If you get raised behind you, there is a good chance that if you spike, you can check/raise the whole field.

With 3 opponents, I do not think it is a clear bet and/or a big mistake either way, but (based on no reads) w/ 4-10 outs and the slight possibility of taking this one down, I think betting is better than calling.

This is a scary board for them too if they whiffed.

[ggbman]

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I felt this hand was interesting and i'm glad there is some controversy regarding it. Here are some key things to think about.

1.) What better hands (Medium PP's can we fold with this bet)
2.) Will we get raised by medium ace here?
3.) If i check and there is one bet, am i going to call anyway to chase, getting only around 9-1?

Here was my thinking at the time. Since i was not 3 bet preflop, a big ace was unlikely, i can't see someone having better then A-8 to A-10 here, although some players would have just called with AJ preflop i guess. Therefore, i am probably not getting raised all that often on this flop by most passives at 5-10. If we think we are getting raised, then betting is clearly wrong. So if a medium will just call my bet, but bet if i checked to them, it seemed like a good idea to bet for folding equity, to keep the lead in the hand, and to figure out where i am at. Any further thoughts?

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IMO if you DON'T bet, someone will and thus knock out the guy with 77. If no one bets, then the guy with 77 gets a free chance to spike a set, but that isn't the end of the world at worse than 20:1. What does suck though, is getting raised here when you likely could have seen the turn for 1 bet or even free.

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One thing to think about here is to make this bet unprofitable (assuming we are going to call bet) we need to be raised 4x as often as we take down the pot uncontested. I don't know which occurance is more common, just food for thought.

[Argus]

I like a bet here, but it depends on a few factors that I may be wrong about since I don't play 5/10. If you are unlikely to get raised, even by a medium ace, then betting becomes much more enticing. If your hand is even marginally worth a call it's worth a bet. I think your hand is worth a call here (you'd be getting 10:1 on a gutshot), and you may fold the aforementioned 77 or some other better hand. The likelihood of this happening again should entice you to bet; if the players have been taking hands like that to showdown on boards like then perhaps checking and hoping for a free card is better. You certainly aren't obligated to bet the turn if you miss, but I can't see betting the flop being worse than calling unless it's likely you'll be raised or it's likely the flop will be checked around. Since I doubt both of these: bet.

[PokerBob]

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One thing to think about here is to make this bet unprofitable (assuming we are going to call bet) we need to be raised 4x as often as we take down the pot uncontested. I don't know which occurance is more common, just food for thought.

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Good point, but I think we win this pot with a flop bet just about never.