fundemental short handed concept I'm missing

[mister]

I missed AKs, AQs, and a few others

but you get the idea, it's close

[mister]

So you would check call this 100% of the time ?

Does that not make us predictable ? I've seen excellent players check raise with draws, or much less then that middle pair, just to keep you guessing. I don't know that this is wrong (hence the forum). I just always found the play to be strong. But maybe it's just for flash...

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]


but you get the idea, it's close

[/ QUOTE ]

I never said it wasn't. I just said making a play to find out what he has after the flop, is a mistake.

[mister]

So it becomes a mistake purely because of his 3 bet ? I mean if he just calls (instead of 3 betting), with a hand like KT, is it still a mistake to bet my Q on that flop ?

If so it seems like I should be raising way more often preflop just to provoke this rash of free cards I could potentially get if I was in his position.

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]
Getting a better idea, is only going to lose you money when you have the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

you mean save you money when you have the worst hand?

if he 3bets our checkraise, why can't we check-fold the turn IU?

[mister]

that's what I was asking Joker. What range of hands will he have when he reraises our check raise ?

Especially since I'm check raising my big hands on the flop about 75% of the time. He's going to have to respect that play from me.

[joker122]

AA-QQ, AK, KQ and usually AQ. remember, this is a TAG.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Getting a better idea, is only going to lose you money when you have the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

you mean save you money when you have the worst hand?

if he 3bets our checkraise, why can't we check-fold the turn IU?

[/ QUOTE ]

sure it saves money when you have the worst hand, but it costs you money when you have the best hand (he folds, when he would put more bets in the pot). You are also folding a hand on the turn that could also have up to 5 outs. So not only does it cost you money on your winners, it costs you the pot all the times you would have drawn out on the river. Also there will be times you fold the winner when he 3 bets you with 77 ont he flop (it might be rare, but it will still happen). When you factor all that together it WAAAAAAAY outweighs the 1BB you save by c/r to find out if your hand isnt any good

[mister]

[ QUOTE ]
AA-QQ, AK, KQ and usually AQ. remember, this is a TAG.

[/ QUOTE ]

exactly, so I'd be confortable folding to that range.

I guess people are saying check call so we can either win or suckout or lose cheaply. I see some merit to that. But I think I could never robotically always do that.

[mister]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Getting a better idea, is only going to lose you money when you have the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

you mean save you money when you have the worst hand?

if he 3bets our checkraise, why can't we check-fold the turn IU?

[/ QUOTE ]

sure it saves money when you have the worst hand, but it costs you money when you have the best hand (he folds, when he would put more bets in the pot). You are also folding a hand on the turn that could also have up to 5 outs. So not only does it cost you money on your winners, it costs you the pot all the times you would have drawn out on the river. Also there will be times you fold the winner when he 3 bets you with 77 ont he flop (it might be rare, but it will still happen). When you factor all that together it WAAAAAAAY outweighs the 1BB you save by c/r to find out if your hand isnt any good

[/ QUOTE ]


Ya but now you're not allowing for all the times he draws out on us.