is this angle shoot inappropriate?

[andyfox]

It's an angle. It's the same thing as the players who, in limit poker, 3-bet, knowing the pot has not yet been 2-bet.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Telegraphing your intentions is something ignorant players do, but it's not an angle shot. I look for telegraphers all the time, they are a goldmine when they're on your left. If you purposely make false telegraphs, but stay within the rules and ettiquette, this is not shooting an angle. Saavy players will catch on quick if you falsely telegraph anyway and not give you any creedence till you act. There is no rule against telegraphing.

Intentionally manipulating rules that commonly cause confusion, such as your original example, is an angle shot.

al

[brokedickrooster]

You can't "see and raise" any more than you can "call and raise". Both are string bets and unallowed.

[RJT]

[ QUOTE ]
im in a small stakes MTT home game. i only know the host who was not at my table.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he was at your table, would you still have done it? Since you mentioned it, seems like it might be a relevant point.

Type of MTT home game? - Bunch of guys/gals getting together for a night out of beer and poker or competitive, decent size prize pool?

Bunch of guys getting together - ask the host since he is your friend and also friend to the other players. (Not that one shouldn't still be competitive in a "friendly" game.)

Competitive game - knock yourself out. But, not really as smooth a move as you seem to think in my opinion.

[Easy E]

So, grabbing chips too early when I am going to call, because I'm stupid and it helps you, is okay with you... but grabbing chips early to influence action in front of me is an angle?

If you don't like chips- putting a card protector on my cards to indicate a call, then folding

Your definition of angle shot seems arbitrary to me

[Easy E]

my personal view is that a little gamesmanship is expected and part of the deal in any endeavor. i play serious level soccer and have been called dirty by a small minority of players b/c i tend to use tactics that frustrate but never meet the criteria of hurting others. my personal feeling is that this exact line is the same for poker

Your personal view is incorrect- this is playing an angle shot and you know that already.

As to soccer, can we be rationalizing our behaviour a bit? What exactly is <font color="blue">i tend to use tactics that frustrate but never meet the criteria of hurting others</font>

[Trainwreck]

I thought by definition, all angle shooting is inappropriate.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out after they kick your ass and toss you like the scene from ROUNDERS.

You're not the sharpest pencil in the box, obviously.

All kidding aside, AS'n in a home game is very very very stupid on many levels.

&gt;TW&lt;

[MonkeeMan]

This is a savvy home game crowd, knowing you couldn't say "call and raise" and then raise. Most home games I'm in this would have backfired on you and you'd of been tossing in that other 2K. And personally, if those words all came out at normal speed I think you should be able to "call and raise".

I also have no problem with you spreading disinformation in this way, but I'm sure I'll get shouted down on this.

[maldini]

[ QUOTE ]
my personal view is that a little gamesmanship is expected and part of the deal in any endeavor. i play serious level soccer and have been called dirty by a small minority of players b/c i tend to use tactics that frustrate but never meet the criteria of hurting others. my personal feeling is that this exact line is the same for poker

Your personal view is incorrect- this is playing an angle shot and you know that already.

As to soccer, can we be rationalizing our behaviour a bit? What exactly is <font color="blue">i tend to use tactics that frustrate but never meet the criteria of hurting others</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

i like to pull shirts, hold people, maybe even hit someone a bit late up high (not low where there is chance of injury) if i think it might take him to another level of tilt.

i think the same thing applies to poker. these guys were fairly bad but not terrible maybe on average what you would see at a pokerstars $20+2 SNG (where as i would consider myself somewhere around decent). 1st place was estimated at $400 due to rebuys.

i think based on the comments, i will refrain from doing this type of thing in the future, particularly in a casino. i intend to visit several this summer so i appreciate the comments. it seems that my view that this is just harmless gamesmanship is not the consistent with the norm.

thanks again for your comments.

[SamIAm]

[ QUOTE ]
thanks again for your comments.

[/ QUOTE ]I have to say, Maldini, I'm pretty impressed with your line during this conversation. You were attacked both indirectly ("people like you...") and directly ("you're not the sharpest...") and you stayed civil and reasonable. Nobody could blame you for thinking about the angle. Then you asked for opinions, then decided not to use it in the future.

I'm not sure if you know how things are supposed to work around here, but I think your job is to get really insulted, type in all caps, and then yell at people. This "reasonable discussion while ignoring trolls" stuff throws the whole forum out of whack. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Well done.
-Sam