|
|
#21
05-15-2005, 10:11 AM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: MONSTER DRAW in an unraised pot
After the action, fold this without question. You've invested 1BB in this pot. Leave it that.
Never, ever push in a situation like this. Before I get flamed, I used to be in favor of pushing many double draws, but through much bitter experience have found myself up against some idiot holding an AQs or even A4s or tptk + flush draw, hands which you are *way* behind. You are also behind against a set 60/40 (I believe). You're basically 50/50 under IDEAL circumstances. Let it go, it's not worth the agony. If you're three handed or heads up with some money in the pot, a decent read, and a good chance of a fold, different story. Or in a multi way pot with a couple already all in AND the nut straight draw... And bet the flop, say 2/3 to 1 pot. No one will know what hit them if you get your straight on the turn (less so for the flush). Checking isn't bad either, depending on how the hand plays out pf, position, etc, but utg+1 I would probably lead this. 
|
|
#23
05-15-2005, 02:35 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: MONSTER DRAW in an unraised pot
Honest question: In "Supersystem," Doyle Brunson advocates playing a suited connector like this and his head would explode for a flop like that. I believe that he would advocate pushing HARD on that flop and let the rest of the table sort it out. It seems that the consensus here is the opposite. Why is that?
|
|
#25
05-15-2005, 03:19 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: MONSTER DRAW in an unraised pot
[ QUOTE ]
Because Doyle Brunson wasn't facing a bet and two separate check-raises. [/ QUOTE ]True but he wouldn't have checked that flop to begin with either, which is what I was getting it.
|
|
#26
05-15-2005, 05:33 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: MONSTER DRAW in an unraised pot
Doyle's flop bets in those situations also presumably had a much better chance of taking down the pot than what Hero is faced with here. I don't wish to get into a debate over whether you are right or wrong, but using the reasoning of "Doyle would play it this way" is very weak. The correct play always depends on the exact circumstances. And Doyle Brunson wasn't playing Party or Stars 1/2 or whatever this was, with six people seeing the flop.
|
|
#27
05-15-2005, 07:51 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: MONSTER DRAW in an unraised pot
Fold. Too good a chance UTG+2 or MP1 has the NFD and you are almost definitely against a set. Get out. Sorry, man. I don't mind the preflop limp, though, if people are routinely passive and loose preflop. Especially if they love to check/raise the flop and give you free looks at the turn. You just have to smack UTG+2 around so he stops making those stupid flop bets.
|
|
#28
05-15-2005, 10:36 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: MONSTER DRAW in an unraised pot
[ QUOTE ]
I don't wish to get into a debate over whether you are right or wrong, but using the reasoning of "Doyle would play it this way" is very weak. [/ QUOTE ]However, saying you would play it another way is somehow better? I'm not suggesting that Doyle is God and you're clueless but I asked a simple question as to why he would feel differently and I have yet to recieve an answer.[ QUOTE ] Doyle Brunson wasn't playing Party or Stars 1/2 or whatever this was, with six people seeing the flop. [/ QUOTE ]I'll agree with that. That's why he's raise with the suited connectors with position! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Seriously, this flop is perfect for your hand. If you're gonna be folding perfect flops with a suited connector, may as well fold them and save your money for pre-flop raises with stronger hands.
|
|
#29
05-15-2005, 11:16 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: MONSTER DRAW in an unraised pot
[ QUOTE ]
Seriously, this flop is perfect for your hand. If you're gonna be folding perfect flops with a suited connector, may as well fold them and save your money for pre-flop raises with stronger hands. [/ QUOTE ] I really think this is the most wrong-headed thinking that occurs frequently on this forum (I even said it myself before I knew better, I think). It is appealing because it is simple and it is intuitive, but it is very wrong. This statement basically boils down to "Play your own cards, don't think about what anyone else has." Just because the flop is perfect for your hand, doesn't mean you should push your stack in. If the action indicates that the combination of your hand, the flop, and your opponents' hands is far from ideal, then you should fold. That is the case here. Doesn't mean you shouldn't have played it in the first place. (Although that is debatable, too, of course.)
|
|
#30
05-16-2005, 12:18 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: MONSTER DRAW in an unraised pot
results:
I fold as i dont like getting my money in vs a set with a draw. The first check raiser promply moves allin to get called just as quick with top set and the first check raiser had KK which was limped in LP, the river came a jack so i wouldve won a decent pot, i still think folding is correct though Noah
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
