99...now what?

[TheUsher]

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I'm still a little lost with your example.

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If you were thinking of raising here, you should have done it on the flop

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Flop:
BB bets t150
Hero calls t150.

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** Dealing Flop **
Gregernaut bets [150].
SwiftSteal calls [150].

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I don't question that SwiftSteal is a good player, but other than villan being the raiser on the turn (and the position difference) I don't see the real contrast between this line and OP's. Not being critical, just trying to understand. I still see this from the "no set, no bet" perspective, so I would have folded the flop.

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Well to expand even more since I might be confusing everyone... SwiftSteal thought he had the best hand. The best way for him to play it would most likely be to check/call the flop bet and bet into him on the turn. When he was raised, he technically should have folded but he went with his read there, evidenced by the fact that he said this in chat after: SwiftSteal: guess i was wrong, lol .

I also did say that you could raise the flop in the OP's example if you really really really believed you had the best hand (which isn't exactly easy nor 100% possible) but I was basing the raising comment I made on the fact OP thought he had the best hand. I'd also most likely follow the "no set, no bet" rule here unless of course I felt I knew the player well enough to believe I'd have the best hand here a large enough percentage of the time.

If this isn't clear enough, then I'm really sorry and I'll try and delete my posts in this thread as I'm feeling like a politician here trying to find the proper, exact words and trying not to say something wrong. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Unarmed]

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In response to:

Poster: Unarmed
Subject: Re: 99...now what?

Quote:

** Dealing Turn ** [ 3d ]
SwiftSteal bets [275].
Gregernaut raises [550].
SwiftSteal calls [275].


I'm lost... you have 88 right?



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Eh? I wasn't the one in the hand and yes SwiftSteal had 88. Forget that the other dude had KK as in other cases, he could have many other hands that 88 was in the lead. My whole point was to show the hand to illustrate the intentions for the hand that SwiftSteal had, which were similar to OP's.

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Swift buthered this hand if you ask me...
Then again, he may have a lock read on Villain as a maniac so perhaps it makes sense on some level.

[TheUsher]

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In response to:

Poster: Unarmed
Subject: Re: 99...now what?

Quote:

** Dealing Turn ** [ 3d ]
SwiftSteal bets [275].
Gregernaut raises [550].
SwiftSteal calls [275].


I'm lost... you have 88 right?



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Eh? I wasn't the one in the hand and yes SwiftSteal had 88. Forget that the other dude had KK as in other cases, he could have many other hands that 88 was in the lead. My whole point was to show the hand to illustrate the intentions for the hand that SwiftSteal had, which were similar to OP's.

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Swift buthered this hand if you ask me...
Then again, he may have a lock read on Villain as a maniac so perhaps it makes sense on some level.

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Gregernaut is one of the more solid opponents you'll find at the step 5's so I've seen. This might lead you to believe though that Swift has a good enough read on his play. I will admit that this hand is VERY different than a hand played at say a 11-33 where it's with 2 random opponents.

P.S. Your avatar is probably the best one on the forum. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] That's one of her all-time greatest pictures.

[Unarmed]

Yeah no kidding.

When someone raises PF, bets the flop, and then raises me when I show a ton of strength by calling flop, leading turn when a brick falls I don't normally assume my 8s are good...

I don't play the 1000s though [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Misfire]

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SwiftSteal thought he had the best hand. The best way for him to play it would most likely be to check/call the flop bet and bet into him on the turn. When he was raised, he technically should have folded but he went with his read there, evidenced by the fact that he said this in chat after: SwiftSteal: guess i was wrong, lol .

I also did say that you could raise the flop in the OP's example if you really really really believed you had the best hand (which isn't exactly easy nor 100% possible) but I was basing the raising comment I made on the fact OP thought he had the best hand.

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So if you believe you have the best hand here (and like both SwiftSteal and OP, trust your read enough not to fold), should you check/call the flop and bet the turn, or should you raise the flop?

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If this isn't clear enough, then I'm really sorry and I'll try and delete my posts in this thread as I'm feeling like a politician here trying to find the proper, exact words and trying not to say something wrong. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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I seem to remember a presidential candidate who had the same problem... [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[TheUsher]

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SwiftSteal thought he had the best hand. The best way for him to play it would most likely be to check/call the flop bet and bet into him on the turn. When he was raised, he technically should have folded but he went with his read there, evidenced by the fact that he said this in chat after: SwiftSteal: guess i was wrong, lol .

I also did say that you could raise the flop in the OP's example if you really really really believed you had the best hand (which isn't exactly easy nor 100% possible) but I was basing the raising comment I made on the fact OP thought he had the best hand.

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So if you believe you have the best hand here (and like both SwiftSteal and OP, trust your read enough not to fold), should you check/call the flop and bet the turn, or should you raise the flop?

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If this isn't clear enough, then I'm really sorry and I'll try and delete my posts in this thread as I'm feeling like a politician here trying to find the proper, exact words and trying not to say something wrong. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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I seem to remember a presidential candidate who had the same problem... [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

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Depends on my position but I'd most likely do the same as SwiftSteal in his one hand. A raise on the flop would seem like a distant second option though.

[jah0550]

So, you would min raise KK in the SB on level II with 3 limpers in the pot? How many times have you seen an idiot limp with a hand like A4s(because it was soooted)? This raise says nothing, because who would fold to this raise when they will be getting better than 5-1 pot odds(not to mention the implied odds)? I would call this even if I had a hand like 910s if I was getting 8-1 on the call. Everyone is saying things like "I see min raises with AA and KK all the time." Who does that? I never min raised AA or KK in level 2 in my entire life.

[jah0550]

So, SwiftSteal's play was fine, but mine was terrible? What the hell is the difference? We played the exact same way. We both made incorrect reads, he got lucky, and I didn't. Period.

[TheUsher]

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So, you would min raise KK in the SB on level II with 3 limpers in the pot? How many times have you seen an idiot limp with a hand like A4s(because it was soooted)? This raise says nothing, because who would fold to this raise when they will be getting better than 5-1 pot odds(not to mention the implied odds)? I would call this even if I had a hand like 910s if I was getting 8-1 on the call. Everyone is saying things like "I see min raises with AA and KK all the time." Who does that? I never min raised AA or KK in level 2 in my entire life.

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Man are we going back to this? I've never mini-raised KK/AA there and I never will. That doesn't mean I'm like everyone else though and I have seen ALL those types of hands mini-raised like I said in my original post, as well as complete crap. You may have never seen it yet, but trust me, play a ton more SNG's and you'll see lots of stupid things.

[Misfire]

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So, you would min raise KK in the SB on level II with 3 limpers in the pot?

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Are you upset because he made a bad raise or because he didn't give you an obvious read?