Question for Atheists and maybe those who believe in God. - Page 3

mythrilfox · #21 03-16-2005, 06:18 AM

I don't do these things because I live under a social contract. Whether or not you get caught is beside the point, and if everyone had a view of the greater good punishment wouldn't be necessary. People who say they would steal $25,000 risk-free are threatening the system they live under in a pure, fundamental manner.

I obviously don't go about in day-to-day life thinking about these things, though. If I tell a lie it will not crush the system. Stealing is different, it's bigger, in bits and pieces it crushes the system, but I don't do either of these anyway. I think it's because an honest life is a happier life. That's probably my real motivation.

So regarding the theft question, it would be better to ask if we'd steal a billion risk-free and never have to work again. I wouldn't. I wouldn't even accept a billion if someone offered it to me. Life is about getting to the top, not being catapulted to the top by deception, or being handed the world. Those mean nothing.

twang · #22 03-16-2005, 06:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
What stops me from killing for my own profit? The risk/reward ratio is too great, not to mention the work effort required to remain free.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. Religion, ethics and law are pretty much ad hoc concepts. People commit crimes because

A. the risk/reward ratio is acceptable to them

or

B. they lack the mental skills needed to make a wise risk/reward judgement.

Any reasons beyond these are probably anomalies.

/twang

mythrilfox · #23 03-16-2005, 06:35 AM

ThisHo, you do realize your outlook allows for someone who lives a righteous life, like myself, to go to hell for eternal damnation, but a devout Catholic like Hitler to go to Heaven?

Isn't this wrong? Whose is the greater sin? Who would you rather introduce to your parents over dinner?

In regards to the original question, it's funny how religious people question where the moral compass of non-believers comes from. Religion has caused more death and suffering than anything else in the history of the world. Would the social contract fail without religion? I don't know. I doubt it. People are still ingrained with this stuff from birth. But I do know we'd be a whole lot better off without it. Imagine, no Crusades. No Inquisition. No Salem witchcraft trials. No Holocaust. No Osama Bin-Laden.

This is the world I want to live in.

mythrilfox · #24 03-16-2005, 06:40 AM

The question is not why people commit crimes, but why people do not commit crimes.

twang · #25 03-16-2005, 06:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The question is not why people commit crimes, but why people do not commit crimes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok.

Religion, ethics and law are pretty much ad hoc concepts. People do not commit crimes because

A. the risk/reward ratio is not acceptable to them

or

B. they have the mental skills needed to make a wise risk/reward judgement.

Any reasons beyond these are probably anomalies.

/twang

Maddog121 · #26 03-16-2005, 09:59 AM

Those are not real world conditions. Some people can't see that and maybe pie in the sky rewards and bogeyman fears are the only thing that can keep them behaving rationally. Even so, those folks are time bombs waiting to go off. Look at the recent church shootings.

krishanleong · #27 03-16-2005, 10:28 AM

I think a thinking person can come with a very simple set of morality rules if they do not believe in god. Treat others as you want to be treated is a good one.

Krishan

kevyk · #28 03-16-2005, 10:30 AM

How big of a monkey?

krishanleong · #29 03-16-2005, 10:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I wont rob an old lady b/c I dont want somebody to rob my grandmother
However I will steal cable or [censored] over a credit card company without a second thought, while at the same time if the guy in the candy store gives me to much change I would give it back to him in a second

[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly what I mean. In the absence of a god, he decides himself what is right or wrong based on personal introspection.

Krishan

kevyk · #30 03-16-2005, 10:57 AM

I have not read all of the responses to this thread, so excuse me if my point has already been made.

People choose not to commit crimes because the benefits of living in a crime-free society outweigh the benefits they will derive from criminal activity. The alternative is an existence in which life is nasty, brutish and short, where the strong prey on the weak and the weak plot revenge against the strong. Only the most desperate individuals within a functioning society would prefer such an existence to one in which they could live freely and honestly, but in which they had to agree to live according to society's rules.

Belief in God simply does not factor in.