66 raises limpers from the Button

[Fat Nicky]

Hate the river check. Right you could be check-raised by a flush a percentage of the time, but you will gain an extra bet from 1 or more of your opponents that were playing middle pair, or 2 pair...some opponents also could have been on straight draws. either way...horrible check, i'm suprised that some posters like it...

[QTip]

You want in cheap with this hand...because 90% of the time you're folding on the flop. What would be really great is getting 3 bet here from someone being tricky limping in with a big suited broadway or something like that....this play sucks.

[sfer]

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This is a bad river bet. (Marginal at best)

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I think the river bet is easy.

[meep_42]

I really like the PF raise.

2 bets to win 11.5 (5 limpers aren't folding, SB + BB), if neither of the blinds come -- you only have to make up -3.5- SB to make this play EV neutral. Couple that with the fact that you'll flop a draw sometimes, you'll get a free card sometimes, and you'll win UI sometimes; and I think this raise with a mid-pair should be standard. (lower sets lose more of the time, so the value goes down the lower the initial pair, obviously.)

-d

[Sarge85]

[ QUOTE ]
You want in cheap with this hand...because 90% of the time you're folding on the flop. What would be really great is getting 3 bet here from someone being tricky limping in with a big suited broadway or something like that....this play sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

You raise JJ here?
You raise ATs here?
QJs?
9Ts?
TT?

What if I told you that the difference in hand equity between JJ and 66 (against 5 random hands) is only 10% favoring the Jacks.

Which is huge - but with Jacks, chances are you go farther with the hand (and still lose), than you with 66. With the 66's more often than not, your folding to any bet that doesn't hit your set.

I'm not saying this is standard - but its not so horrible either.

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

[shant]

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This is a bad river bet. (Marginal at best)

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I think the river bet is easy.

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Call if it's one-bet back or fold to any more action?

[hate]

[ QUOTE ]
You want in cheap with this hand...because 90% of the time you're folding on the flop. What would be really great is getting 3 bet here from someone being tricky limping in with a big suited broadway or something like that....this play sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Immediate odds against 5 limpers have you at 20% equity with any pocket pair when I did some pokerstove simulations. I've got no clue where the 8% you don't hit the set on the flop comes from, perhaps from pots that are big enough to see the turn or gutshots that add value.

[pokerstudAA]

[ QUOTE ]
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This is a bad river bet. (Marginal at best)

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I think the river bet is easy.

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What makes the river bet easy?

Is it possilbe that many people can get tied to middle of the road 5-out draws and weak overpairs to cold call two on the turn without a flush draw?

[pokerstudAA]

I either get 3 bets when I am ahead or lose 2 bets when I am behind?

I really dont understand what makes the river bet easy.

[QTip]

It's hard for me to believe I'm hearing this. JJ will flop undercards 33% of the time on top of the 12% flopping the set. As you said...huge difference. I think you should be greatful that you can get in for only 1 sb at this point...why even risk the 3 bet.

And meep, this isn't a mid-pair, it's a small pair.

Does anyone recall in SSHE on page 88 where it talks about how raising PF reduces your postflop expectation?

None of this talk of raising a small pair in late position against this field makes any sense to me. You're not going to win UI in this field, period. I think a play like this just means that you have to win more when you do flop a set in order to make up for the times when you raised a small pair...it's just not going to happen. I'm still saying this play is -EV. I can't see any evidence to the contrary.