150-300 J6s sb

[Michael Davis]

"can't imagine he's betting the river into 2 people with a hand equal to or worse than J-no kicker. for one, he probably wasn't bluffing/semibluffing the turn, because A high would probably rather take a free card, and a hand like TT would probably bet the turn adn take the free showdown. that river really smells like a value bet."

I agree with this, but I think that when everyone knows this there is a lot of room for making bizarre bets in three way pots on the river.

-Michael

[Duke]

Looks like $50 chips, 2-3 blinds.

That's the great thing about Commerce, they have 1,2,3,5,10,20,25,50,100,500,1k,5k chips.

~D

[bugstud]

given how these high limit threehanded games generally play, are these guys folding that many hands on the button?

[schroedy]

But the dealers "have a hard time counting the bets with the $3 chips" in the $9/$18 game.

Or so explains the floor man when I asked him why no less than 5 pots in 45 minutes had the improper number of chips in them before the flop. (Or would have. The one I was involved in, I made her get it right.)

[mike l.]

andy. thank you. the preflop call is correct although it's a little close. the button's preflop raise is obligatory here and was happening like 80%+ of the time. that's a lot of hands guys. J6s does not tend to be a big dog against many of the sorts of hands the other two players have at least some of the time.

[mike l.]

"I would have check called the river and expected a very big hand form the button."

how about J7s because that's what he had and he and i split the pot.

[dankhank]

[ QUOTE ]

I don't understand why you are checking and calling.

[/ QUOTE ]

because if he got raised he would be put to a tough decision.

[Diplomat]

Mike,

when I first read this post, I thought it was a fairly clear fold pre-flop. I took a glance at the numbers and am still convinced it is a fold pre-flop, although slightly closer than I previously thought.

You can look at this hand two ways. The first would be to look at the numbers and make a decision. Your equity isn't that bad, when you run the hands to showdown. Moreover, if you play better than your opponents, you might be able to make up a negative difference through superior post-flop play. This is of course also assuming that neither of your opponents have you severely dominated.

Another way to look at is that you have a sub-standard hand in poor position against two hands that stand a good chance of being significantly better than yours. Moreover, you probably will have to show down a winner to take the pot; ace high and king-high will go to the river often (and so they should) in three-handed games. When you flop a pair, how well do you trust your ability to play your hand well?

I discussed this a bit with Duke and recalled that there are times to play a borderline hand against a particular type opponent, and times to pass on a borderline hand against a different type of opponent. If there was a good chance you could get both your opponents to make a mistake and fold hands they should not post-flop, then I think the call is closer; if not, the hand should be folded.

Also, the tell on the big blind should be a reason to -fold- your hand, not call. It improves the pot size, but reduces the chance of your hand being that much better than the hands of your opponent(s).

-Diplomat

[Lawrence Ng]

[ QUOTE ]
and why kickers are more important with J's than with K's.

[/ QUOTE ]

Top pairs are less likely to be dominated in short handed games even without a kicker. Mid pairs face domination from bigger kickers and the possibility of top pair. Out of position without a kicker on 2nd pair warrants a fold most of the time if faced with callers.

Having said this I think Mike should have CR'd the turn if it gives him a better opportunity to win the pot, but in most cases I would fold unless I know the button to be a habitual better on most hands.

Lawrence

[Clarkmeister]

Good post. I agree, fold preflop, and the BB calling is a bad thing, not a good thing.