QUEEN-QUEEN Offsuit

[AngryCola]

[ QUOTE ]
Going for a turn checkraise is much too risky for obvious reasons, and must be rejected

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? I think it's an excellent spot for a CR, but I'm not that great of a player.

The action on the flop strongly suggests that someone will bet again on the turn. If you aren't confident that someone is going to bet in this spot, when is a CR EVER acceptable?
That is most likely the play I would make from the position you were in, but I guess I could be wrong.

Again, the only problem I see is there is some lost value on the turn. When you 3 bet on the flop like that, you are probably just going to get check-called on the turn (profitably for your opponents).

It's the nature of my game to try and charge more on the turn.

You raising the flop after it was 2-bet is fine, and is definitely +EV, but (personally) I would go for a CR on the turn.

I think this debate illustrates the problems with being out of position pretty well. I just think if you don't think a CR will work in this spot, you will rarely find times that it will work (unless you have a monster).

That's all just my opinion, and I could very well be wrong.

[AngryCola]

You don't think your edge is pretty small with this flop and two cards to come?

Really?

To be honest with you, I'd really like to hear Mr. Miller's opinion about this situation.

[nepenthe]

[ QUOTE ]
The time to wait for the turn is when you have a small edge on the flop that might have a bigger edge on the turn. If you have TT on a ragged flop, you wait for the turn; if it's safe, you raise. If it isn't, you can let go.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know what? Now that I think about it, if I had TT Offsuit on this exact board with the exact flop action to me, I'm raising, experiments be damned. Same with JJ. Consider the possibility that it is because I hold QQ that I can more readily afford the call.

[Harv72b]

[ QUOTE ]
Saying you should wait until the turn to raise is a gross misapplication of SSH.

[/ QUOTE ]

page 328, Item 4.

[AngryCola]

Great posts Harv, you are definitely a man with some sense. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I think all 3 points of item 4 are applicable in this case.

[nepenthe]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Going for a turn checkraise is much too risky for obvious reasons, and must be rejected

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this debate illustrates the problems with being out of position pretty well. I just think if you don't think a CR will work in this spot, you will rarely find times that it will work (unless you have a monster).

[/ QUOTE ]

A turn checkraise, if it works, would be excellent. It is just that it would be too much of a disaster if a turn blank gets checked through by CO's flush/straight draws or whatever, such that I am unwilling to attempt it unless I was close to 100% sure CO would bet the turn. And I wasn't even 80% sure, without compelling reads to boot.

[AngryCola]

I'm curious, what did the SB and CO hold? Did you ever find out?

I would like to determine the equity on the flop.

[Evan]

I just skimmed through this thread. Am I the only one that didn't know what the CO was going to do before he did it?

[The T.A.]

[ QUOTE ]
I just skimmed through this thread. Am I the only one that didn't know what the CO was going to do before he did it?

[/ QUOTE ]
Nope, you're not alone.

I think this thread was doomed the second it was created. I mean, "Queen-Queen Offsuit." Comon, now.

[AngryCola]

Yes. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]