Value of SSH if already playing past small stakes?

[Tosh]

5/10 and 10/20 at Party are low limit games anyway, and SSH applies to pretty much all of Party.

[surfdoc]

Hi Warik,

Looks like a lively discussion your question has generated. The answer here is so simple though and one I have already provided to you via AIM. You really need to read BOTH. It will not take you much time as you have seen a lot of the info already on these boards.

The problem is there is no one size fits all strategy. Sometimes the 10/20 or 15/30 games play tight, sometimes they play loose. Sometimes they change in the span of one orbit and you need to be able to adjust. While many would argue that HPFAP is outated in todays games, it is still an awesome read and even if you are reading it to point out its flaws it will be worth your time on the way to becoming an expert.

[Warik]

Thank you for the replies everyone. There were many more than I expected. Hopefully I have sparked a good thread that will go beyond simply answering my question.

I will go ahead and study SSH.

Thanks again!

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
what are multiple specific concepts from hpfap that you can think of that apply to today's games? try to answer without looking, but it's ok to look too. i think there's very very little in there. preflop stuff is mediocre and unenlightening, handling of multiway pots is generally wrong. shorthanded section?

there certainly was huge value in the book before. it's incredible what they were able to produce with just experience and thought at the time it was written. i think it has value now like any poker book has value in that it can point out a minor thing or two or cause you to think more deeply about your game, but i cannot imagine a singular circumstance where i would recommend it over ssh. i also don't know of any games that i would describe as "an hpfap game".

[/ QUOTE ]

Things I can think of right off the bat are:

1) The section on blind stealing / blind defense. I think this is in the shorthanded chapter that you mention, and it's an area where SSHE is a little bit lacking.

2) The section on heads-up river play. SSHE has an outstanding discussion on multiway river play, but not much of the way a discussion on heads-up river play.

3) To pick something slightly more controversial, I do think there is *some* value in the notion of which hands play better in raised versus unraised pots. I have absolutely no doubt that they HEFAP takes this concept too far, and it is quite possible that it does more harm than good for the game of someone who is coming across the section for the first time and not really putting it into its proper context (the same can be said of certain of the SSHE sections; I think SSHE is a bit overzealous for example about advocating raises with weakish drawing hands). I do think, however, that this section has some relevance.

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
This may have already been discussed before, but I could find no such topic, so apologies in advance.

I'm in $10/$20 Empire now with the occasional stop in the $5/$10 games. Is it to my benefit to read SSH even though I no longer play small stakes loosey goosey games?

Does your answer change if I say that I haven't read HEFAP yet? Should I read SSH first and then HEFAP. Is SSH of any value to me at this stage in my poker "career?"

Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

read it, bro.. well i read it. some of it.

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
i also don't know of any games that i would describe as "an hpfap game".


[/ QUOTE ]

not anymore.. not anymore.. not even the Mirage 2AM 20-40 anymore..

[larrondo]

Nate--

I know this is an old thread, but I would love to hear more detailed thoughts on #3 (if indeed you somehow see this.) What exactly does HEFAP go to far with? The idea that it's occasionally right to raise with medium suited connectors (or small/medium pocket pairs) to make the pot big and thus cause opponents to call down with overcards, etc?

I just read HEFAP and this seemed like the only potentially controversial advice.

Thanks,

Larry.

[larrondo]

[ QUOTE ]


I just read HEFAP and this seemed like the only potentially controversial advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

The only potentially controversial advice regarding which hands like a raised/unraised pot, to be clear.

Thanks.

[antifish225]

I dunno why everyone is so down of HEFAP - I have read most of the books out there and I have found that there is some really good advice in HEFAP that has added to my win rate more than most other books (well TOP has added the most, but I read that a long time ago) - although I agree some of the concepts in the book may not seem too applicable there are some real gems in the book that if applied to the right game are big money winners (especially some of the thinking on 4th st) - JMHO (and I play exclusivly live 20-40, 30-60 so I do not really have any sort of opinion on how applicable the contents are to the online 10-20, 15-30 games)....

[bicyclekick]

There are so many players playing much higher than that who could benefit from the book.

fwiw I read it after playing 15/30 party for quite awhile...and while it didn't have much that I was unaware of, it did reinforce many of the concepts I was aware of and applying and that they were, in fact, the correct play and also give me more reasoning behind why they are the right play.