Preflop decision: ATo

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
there's only 1 limper.

Nate said that 2 of the 3 left to act are extremely loose (calling 3 bets preflop with 73s), and I think he meant to imply that they would come along no matter what. If they fold that's even better though.

[/ QUOTE ]


yeah, but if they'll come in with 90% of their hands, then you'd rather them call than fold. you make more money that way.

[Brian]

Nate, I know you love sims. I think they are near worthless. Agreed with sthief that even with these sims, you gave them too much starting hand credit.

You are going to play well post-Flop. Your opponents aren't. You are going to do much better with your ATo than the simulations would indicate. Raise.

-Brian

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
Why does this hand become easier to play if you raise? To me, it would seem harder.

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because the burden of hitting the flop is now on your opponents. you're going to bet regardless if it's checked to you. your opponents have to actually hit the flop in some way to stay in.

[JSD]

The fact that the hand becomes easier to play when raised would push this into a raise, IMO.

In what way does the hand become easier to play when raised? It unlikely to narrow the field. And it won't buy him position.

Furthmore, it sounds like Nate's PFRs aren't getting much respect at the table. Its not like he's going to be able to auto-bet the flop and expect to take it down. Given his description of the players on his left, I'd expect them to call down with any piece of the board, big or small (and you'll never how big until showdown).

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]
Why does this hand become easier to play if you raise? To me, it would seem harder.

[/ QUOTE ]

Think about psychology/hand reading...1. what hands you put them on, 2. the hands they think you have them on, and 3. what hand(s) you think they put you on... all become simpler by showing strength (or not showing it) preflop.

If you just call here, and there is a raise behind you, and an ace or a ten flops, the hand will be very hard to play.

[MarkD]

Without looking at any sims this seems like a good spot to limp.

ATo is too much hand to fold in this spot and the main reasons for raising are gone. The equity that you give up pre-flop by not raising in this spot is much smaller than it appears IMO. This leads me to believe that the equity could be easily regained post flop since your opponents are so bad and will be playing in a small pot (magnifying their mistakes).

Yes, it seems like a limp.

[MarkD]

your opponents have to actually hit the flop in some way to stay in.

From the description Nate gives I think you may be giving your opponents too much respect. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]
In what way does the hand become easier to play when raised? It unlikely to narrow the field. And it won't buy him position.

[/ QUOTE ]

See Stheif and I's reply to Hitch's question.

[JSD]

[ QUOTE ]

Think about psychology/hand reading...1. what hands you put them on, 2. the hands they think you have them on, and 3. what hand(s) you think they put you on... all become simpler by showing strength (or not showing it) preflop.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ummm, somehow I think that the types of opponents who call 3 bets cold with 73s aren't spending a lot of time thinking about what their opponents are holding.

[JSD]

[ QUOTE ]
Without looking at any sims this seems like a good spot to limp.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think limping and folding are close. I think raising is bad for the reasons described in my previous posts.

I has a simliar hand in a 9/18 game last week. One weak limper to me, two off the button. I raised with A9o to isolate (without thinking about who was on my left) and immediately regretted it. CO coldcalled. Button coldcalled. Blinds both called. I ended up in a 5-way raised pot with A9o. I folded to a single bet on the flop when it missed me completely.

I think those of you who are advocating a raise here are underestimating how likely it is that this will be a 5-way hand even if Nate raises.