QT...what a biotch

[NLSoldier]

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This bit I don't like. It seems like you're sacrificing value to avoid a tough decision that in reality isn't that tough. A turn 3-bet should usually mean we fold before showdown.

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You're right. I guess I just hate not seeing a showdown here and am not good enough to be able to laydown to the turn 3bet or to a river bet. I usually end up thinking "well now I have odds to hit my 5 outer" so I call the 3bet and then miss and I'm like "well now its just one bet to see showdown" so I pay off like a fish. This is def. a leak in my game.

What do you think about my comment regarding how I generally play draws and hands other than top pair on the flop. Do you think opponents are probably not paying enough attention for that to matter much?

[baronzeus]

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I raise this preflop just about every time.

I think raising the flop is better but waiting till the turn isn't horrible.

Given your line you need to value bet the river.

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If you raise QTo, I'm assuming you raise KT and K9o, and A8o. What is your VPIP? 33? 30?

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My vpip is 31 as of late.

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Interesting...my vpip has been hovering around 27 and my PFR around 18 but I only open with QTo in CO or later.

[JoshuaD]

I'm taking the WA/WB line here. Calling any bet, betting if checked to.

Preflop is marginal but fine, IMO.

[NLSoldier]

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here's a question...

you were three bet from BB and flop top pair with QT. Is there a chance you won't take it to showdown? I mean, if I raise the flop and get 3 bet is there ever a time to call and c/f the turn? would calling the flop, and then folding the turn (to the flush coming in and the overcard) be ok? If i call the turn then I have to call the river, IMO.

Back to the hand. If I get 3bet on the turn I think I can lay it down (i hope I can...I should be able to). In this case I got a free showdown out of the deal, which is nice, since I wanted to show it down. At the same time, if I'm ahead when I raise I'd still be ahead on the river so probably wouldn't want to take the free card, correct?



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I we raise the flop and he 3 bets there is almost no chance I'm not going to showdown. If we raise the turn and he 3bets, we really shouldnt be going to showdown but like I said in my above post, that can be a tough fold to make.



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If my read was over a larger selection of hands I think betting the river would have been a better play- part fold equity and part value bet- what does it mean when a TAG calls your turn raise and checks to you on the river- has he pussed out?

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If you bet the river it is strictly for value. I don't think there is any chance AQ is folding.

[JrJordan]

Minus the preflop raise, I like the way you played this. A top pair Q hand is my borderline hand for using the check/call line, but when the 3rd club hits the turn, I think it protects you from a 3-bet against a lot of hands beating you. Likewise you can charge his single club an extra BB when he continues the semi-bluff. The river check through also looks good since you're only getting value from a hand like TT/JJ, all other hands you beat will fold and hands that beat you will call.

[ALL1N]

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What do you think about my comment regarding how I generally play draws and hands other than top pair on the flop. Do you think opponents are probably not paying enough attention for that to matter much?

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I usually raise draws and great hands (and sometimes small pairs if I feel that a flop 3-bet will reliably show I'm behind) on this flop to satisfy shania, although I don't think people are paying that much attention, no.

[Subfallen]

Hmmm...let's see...fold pre-flop. Raise the flop, your hand is not strong enough to wait for the turn and you might get a free card if the turn is bad (say, like a K for example.) Turn raise is horrible, as you fold out the only hands you're ahead of (JJ, TT), while losing extra to K's or better Q's (without an exceptional read I don't expect anybody to fold.) Betting the river would be horrible.

FOLD PREFLOP.

[irishpint]

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Hmmm...let's see...fold pre-flop. Raise the flop, your hand is not strong enough to wait for the turn and you might get a free card if the turn is bad (say, like a K for example.) Turn raise is horrible, as you fold out the only hands you're ahead of (JJ, TT), while losing extra to K's or better Q's (without an exceptional read I don't expect anybody to fold.) Betting the river would be horrible.

FOLD PREFLOP.

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if i raise the flop i am going to get 3 bet a lot of the time by a lot of hands IMO.

[Subfallen]

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Hmmm...let's see...fold pre-flop. Raise the flop, your hand is not strong enough to wait for the turn and you might get a free card if the turn is bad (say, like a K for example.) Turn raise is horrible, as you fold out the only hands you're ahead of (JJ, TT), while losing extra to K's or better Q's (without an exceptional read I don't expect anybody to fold.) Betting the river would be horrible.

FOLD PREFLOP.

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if i raise the flop i am going to get 3 bet a lot of the time by a lot of hands IMO.

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If you're so worried about the strength of your hand when you have top pair on the flop, what could possibly inspire you to raise the turn?? The only hands you fold out are 99-JJ no club (2 outs), and possibly AQs. Everything else he can have beats you, and none of these hands fold.

[Subfallen]

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Preflop is marginal but fine if you're El Diablo, IMO.

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FYP.