Would you play QTo on the button with 6 limpers ?

[siccjay]

Yea, hands like K 10 and Q 10 always trap me. Then I end up calling a guy down who turns over a pair of Q's with a J kicker. Or if you do flop two pair someone is going to catch a straight, at least they ALWAYS do on Party.

[umdpoker]

interesting....i don't play qts for this exact reason. i think kjs is as low as i go. maybe i am too tight.

[GuyOnTilt]

There's a HUGE difference between playing QTs after 6 limpers, and playing QTo after 6 limpers.

When I first saw the title of this thread, I wondered why there were so many responses. QTo should be an EASY, EASY muck in all but the best of situations. I can't think of a situation where I'd limp with this hand. I've said it many times, but I think a good rule of thumb for micro and LL players is be raising or folding offsuit cards. There are exceptions to this, but during my short string in the micro's and low limits a couple months back when I was doing my OIC thing, I only limped with offsuit cards outside the blinds (excluding pocket pairs of course) ONCE. It was AQo on the Button after 6 limpers, and you could even make an argument for raising that one too, although I think limping there is best. I realize that not all good players take the same approach I do with the raise or fold attitude with offsuit cards. In fact, I'm not sure if I've ever heard anybody else agree with me on that one. But I love it.

QTs after 6 limpers is a whole 'nother matter. I can't believe people are thinking about folding this hand. I would raise in this spot. I'd raise all suited broadway hands in this spot, along with all pocket pairs.

i want to hear a really fabulous reason why hands like KJs, QJs, QTs are totally awesome and even raising hands in late position, while their offsuit cousins are the plgaue. are they really that polar opposite of one another?

In multiway pots, yes. If you're going to even CONSIDER playing a hand like KJo in this spot, you'd better be the postflop player to end all postflop players. I'm not, so I muck it, along with other offsuit trash like QTo.

GoT

[scotnt73]

hpfap page 37 last paragraph..."if you are on the button and there are already callers you can play hands in groups 1-7." QT is a group 6 hand. you guys say this is the best book ever and i agree. so is the book wrong? or am i missing something important.

[GuyOnTilt]

Many posters, myself included, disagree with select passages in HPFAP. Just because I think it's the best book on hold'em doesn't mean that it's flawless, or that I follow its advice blindly.

GoT

[brian0729]

As far as HPFAP goes GOT said it well. There are a couple of the group 6,7 and 8 hands that I dont think are very good to play, except maybe for some very rare spots. I dont play this hand even if the book says I can.

I guess I played it enough when I first started playing and came in second and third enough times to re think the way I played this hand. Plus my poker tracker says its death. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
I would raise in this spot. I'd raise all suited broadway hands in this spot, along with all pocket pairs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right on brother, same here.

I play KJo in this situation, nothing less in the offsuit category. I've learned my lessons.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[Zetack]

[ QUOTE ]
I've said it many times, but I think a good rule of thumb for micro and LL players is be raising or folding offsuit cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

I assume this means when its limped too you? Or you fold or raise off suits when there's one raise to you? For example: you have A-Q off. An Ep limp, a MP limp, a MP2 raise and two bets to you. Is this always a raise or fold, never a call?

And as for the Q-10o. Its trash. Do the six limpers plus at least one blind give you the pot odds to hope for a huge flop?--maybe, but ya know, you don't have to play everything. And one of the blinds may still raise this thing which you are absolutely going to hate.

If we really like hands with more than one way to win, shouldn't we hate hands that essentially have less than one way to win?

I saw a pot taken down by a guy who made a boat with a Q-10 off. The guy with the AA sighed about his beat, and I commented about how tough it was to be beaten by a guy who cold called two bets with that hand. The intrepid Q-10 player took some offense to that so I asked him, suppose you were just going to hit a pair--the "normal" getting hit by the flop, do you like making the Q or the 10? Either! he replied....I just had to shake my head.

Oh, and unlike Joe Tall, I'm probably getting away from K-Jo here, although its light years better than Q-10. But I like to play cards where I'm happily anticipating the flop. If I make a pair I like to be going: oh sweet! rather than taking a deep breath and hoping my hand is good.

--Zetack

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
suppose you were just going to hit a pair--the "normal" getting hit by the flop, do you like making the Q or the 10?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why did you ask him? Do you want him to fold QTo to your raise next time??

[ QUOTE ]
Oh, and unlike Joe Tall, I'm probably getting away from K-Jo here, although its light years better than Q-10. But I like to play cards where I'm happily anticipating the flop. If I make a pair I like to be going: oh sweet! rather than taking a deep breath and hoping my hand is good.

[/ QUOTE ]

KJo: I should state that I used to fold it an was advocate of folding it. Since then I've become a much better post flop player.

Welcome to the forum,
Joe Tall

[Zetack]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
suppose you were just going to hit a pair--the "normal" getting hit by the flop, do you like making the Q or the 10?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why did you ask him? Do you want him to fold QTo to your raise next time??

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, they never listen and they never learn...
He'd just made a boat with it, nah he wasn't going to fold that thing next time no matter what I said. Plus, ya know, after he said either I didn't go on to berate him about his poor play, or lecture him about starting standards or anything. I just shook my head and played on.

[ QUOTE ]

KJo: I should state that I used to fold it an was advocate of folding it. Since then I've become a much better post flop player.


[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, sure I don't doubt that. For me, though, most of the time, its just more trouble than its worth--it looks stronger than it is and I'm going to see two more cards in another sixty seconds anyway...

--Zetack