Well played, cutting edge, or plain risky?

[Buckshot]

When the Ace hits the turn I raised for value. It's less likely one of them have an Ace,e specially since there was no preflop raise. I'm probably beating them both at this time, and if I'm behind I still have many outs.

The river would be trickier if a club doesn't fall.

~stephen

[steveyz]

Do players that your table raise anytime they have an ace? Couldn't Ace-little suited be pretty good possibility? What do you put UTG on?

[DcifrThs]

without reading the post and just hitting reply i'm going to guess risky, well, because its you, stephen [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

now onto the post...

hmm. now THIS is a hand that suits your style man. i think people will either love it or hate it...i definately don't hate it and i can say with confidence its a good play.

the reason its a good play is because we can IMMEDIATELY put OL on a draw, KxQc (although a little less likely with your kk), QcJx, QcTx, JcTx, QxJc (jc high draw would play since you said he was loose...and the ace is on board so he MUST be good if the club hits right? UTG, on the other hand is a mystery...but i can't see him having an ace either, and if he does, its an uber-weak one. but the possibility of him haveing that ace shouldn't deter a raise on BOTH streets because there is more than just the usual flush draw "need more people on the turn to raise" or "get him off a better hand raise." here you're raise has value in and of itself. you likely have the best hand right now. and the ace makes it more likely...

why would utg check and cold call two with a weak ace? then bet out when it pairs when he could again check and call or check and raise. UTG's hand reeks of a pair with a club, and a poorly played one at that. OL has to have a draw, perhaps with a ten...unless he played it all weird like the guy with the flopped 44.

in either case, you got it man, nee han (only to further make it harder for me to get it right lol)

-Barron

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
You can't put someone on not a ace just because they didn't raise preflop, esp if they are UTG. They could be playing any Ax suited, as well as AJ/AQ. I definitely think UTG had an ace here.

[/ QUOTE ]

while he could indeed have the ace here, i think the fact he cold called two on the flop and bet out the turn smells like an equally (or more likely) poorly played pair trying to get this pot. Ax or Axs, as you said, is a possibility but the fact that it MIGHT NOT be makes the turn raise i think key. stephen could have the best hand, and this possibility adds to the value of the raise in addition to the fact that if he is behind its not by much as he has a whoooooole lotta outs, 11 by my count (2 k's and 9 clubs).

of course UTG could have some kind of weak flush but i'd say an ace before the flush...

-Barron

[Buckshot]

If he had any ace then he played his hand strangely and poorly, and I'm not convinced he had an ace at all. But that's neither here nor there since I never played with him before and he didn't call the river.

~stephen

[elysium]

hi buck
since you want to see the river with this particular holding, betting the flop if checked to you is mandatory. this isn't true, however, if you held KQo with the Kc. now checking it down is correct for reasons not readily apparent.

if you're 3-bet on the turn, call and hope to improve. if a club hits, i don't have the original post in front of me here, but if a club hits, then betting or raising is the only thing to do as i remember the original post.