Do poker players need a "thick" skin in order to beat the game?

[James Boston]

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Oh boy, you obviously havent spent a lot of time on these boards.

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Mike, that's a quote from you in a response to one of my posts. Now, I've got thick skin. It takes ALOT to bother me. I've always said, useless negativity accomplishes nothing, but neither does blind optimism. I would categorize your response as the former. It didn't bother me, but I didn't learn anything from it. It's not a matter of thick skin or not. It's a matter of whether or not you're getting to a point. In the case I described, you didn't. In all fairness, you latter resonded with some actual poker debate.

With that said, yes, I do think poker players, or anyone trying to perfect a skill, need thick skin. You can't learn anything if you get your feelings hurt when your imperfections are thrown in your face.

Just out of curiosity, what do you do?

[MaxPower]

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I never critisize an employee personally I critize their action or poor performance.



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I think this is what we should try to do on this site.

Dynasty is like the Simon Cowell of 2+2. His criticisms can be over the top, but he's usually correct and you can learn a lot by listening.

Right now my poker game can be compared to William Hung. I seem to lose every session but I know that I did my best and I have no regrets.

[jasonHoldEm]

Let me relate a story...

I work with a poker coach I send him hands that I had a problem with and he reviews them (not unlike what we do on the strategy forums).

When we first started working together I sent him a hand where I coldcalled in MP with AJo after a raise from an early position player. We took the flop heads up, I flopped top two and ended up losing a big pot to AA. My coach's comment on the hand was brutally simple..."I find your preflop call to be absolutely horrible."

I must admit it that when I read the email it was like he reached through the monitor and bitch slapped me. Who cares whether I should have raised the turn (or whatever my question on the actual hand was, I don't even remember at this point)...I was making a much larger fundamental error by being in the hand in the first place.

I think in order to improve your game you need to check your ego at the door and accept whatever critizims you recieve with an open mind. When Dynasty posts something like that he is just cutting through the crap, I wish more posters were like him.

If you can accept critisims without being offended you'll learn much more quickly by being slapped in the face than you will being sweet talked.

jHE

[bonanz]

I don't think it's really necessary to have a "thick skin" so to simply to play poker well. But I think "thick skin" is almost synonymous with patience.
Now i think that is the case in regards to PLAYING....

but posting here is another story....

If you post here and truly want help, you'll definitely need skin like an elephant. I think in a subject such as poker strategy it's hard to understand what the "correct" play may be and why it is right and it is really up to the person asking the question if they are going to "get it." If you don't really put serious thought into it, its gonna take someone yelling at you to get points through your skull. Because of the nature of the beast, anyone can sit down and play poker and rationalize almost any play.

Just as probably is the case in MG's job he mentioned, there are probably people that he doesnt have to correct as often, because they think about it, and figure out problems themselves and don't make the same, or similar mistakes again. They go over the info in their head again and again because they care slightly more about performance. But then the other guy makes a mistake, gets yelled at, and is just happy to be done with the whole situation and forgets it all.

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this thing of ours

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LMAO

bonanz

[sthief09]

I think I'm in the minority here, but I liked Dynasty's post. I thought it was necessary because the guy had convinced himself that he didn't make a tragic mistake, which he did.

The one thing I can't stand is people who think they're good and refuse to take advice even though they need it. The reason for this is because I used to be that way. About 6 months ago I was more confident in my game than I am now. I couldn't understand why I couldn't beat .50/1 on Party. I came up with every excuse but refused to believe that my game was struggling.

Then I got HEFAP in December and realized how much I needed to learn. Then I studied and played. Then I found the 2+2 forums looking for some books to buy. When I started posting here, I again started to realize how much I needed to know.

The minute I become content with my game is the minute it will slip. I hope someone will slap me in the face and humble me if that ever happens.

So I don't really think you need a thick skin in this aspect. People will try to put you on tilt, and you have to be able to ignore them, and that's important. But as far as becoming better, I think it's most important to be humble and honest with myself.

[Al Schoonmaker]

You asked: "Do poker players need a thick skin in order to survive and learn from the pitfalls associated with the game? "

My answer is quite simple: Yes.

Most people don't learn because they are too defensive. Protecting their egos is more important to them than improving their game. Instead of admitting their mistakes and learning from them, they defend themselves. That's why you read so many bad beat stories and whines about "you can't beat players who don't respect your raises," and similar nonsense.

To "survive and learn from the pitfalls associated with the game" you need to depersonalize the game, its intrinsically exploitative nature, and the huge short term role of luck. You can't perform those tasks well if you are thin skinned. As Dynasty put it, "nothing personal. It's just poker."

Ours is not a gentle game, nor are we gentle people, especially not here. These forums are for people who want to learn, and who accept that learning is often a painful process. When someone as sharp as Dynasty takes the time to point out a mistake, there is only one intelligent answer: "Thank you."

For example, if you look at Cris Brown's "Intuition" thread, you'll see that I thanked her and others for pointing out a serious mistake. Did I like making that admission? Of course not. But I'm grateful to the people who pointed out my mistake, and I want them to continue to do so.

If you want warm fuzzies, play "Old Maid."

Regards,

Al

[Al Schoonmaker]

You wrote: "these forums pretty much take the cake within my experience for rudeness, hostility and arrogance."
Broaden your experience by going to RGP. As more than one person has said, "After going there, I feel like I need a shower."
We're tough here, but flame wars are relatively rare, and highly personal remarks are rarely made.
Regards,
Al

[sublime]

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I don't know if poker players need a thick skin, but those who choose to post here would certainly be well served to develop a thick skin

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This board is full of all kinds of personalitys, some nice and soothing and others that just give you the cold hard facts.

Perfect example: I posted "ahem" advice on a certain NL tourney hand and Ed Miller pointed out in "his" own words that it was incorrect. I also read between the lines and thought to myslef "If I dont know how to swim, how can I teach others?"


As for having thick skin, I imagine it helps but is not a must. However if you cannot accept constructive critism AND you want to improve, well you are screwed.

This board is AWESOME and the amount of help I have recieved is immeasureable. Hell one guy even called me on a Friday night to go over strategy for a tourney.

Keep up the good work guys, and thanks a ton.

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Mike Gallo]

Hell one guy even called me on a Friday night to go over strategy for a tourney.

What a loser [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] I hope you at least got some decent advice. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[sublime]

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What a loser I hope you at least got some decent advice.

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Yeah, unfortunatly he didnt tell me that when u are on the bubble and close to the money when u push all in with AKo that the guy to your left will have QQ. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]