Was my thinking correct here?

[Ed Miller]

I agree that you should have raised the flop though. That's a perfect flop to raise after raising preflop.

How on earth is that in any way a "perfect" flop? I think you guys are all nuts.

[dana33]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK. But what is the thinking behind this? Strictly in terms of my outs and the number of opponents, the odds I'm getting on my raise if everyone calls don't seem to justify it. So am I trying to thin the field instead, to increase the chances of my hand being good if one of my overcards hits?

[thirddan]

doesn't raising the flop make the rest of the hand much easier to play?

[Tosh]

You raise as you want to drive out as many as possible. If you catch an ace or queen you want to maximise the chance it gives you a winner.

Thinking about it a bit more I'm not actually that sure. I think you could call the flop and raise the turn with a total blank or an ace or queen.

[Trix]

Hi

Thought process: a pretty ragged flop

I dont think this flop is ragged. 942 would be ragged...

On a flop like this, there are a good chance that atleast one of your outs are no good.
Hands like: QT,AT,A8,A6 all kill one of your overcards.
T8,97.86,TT,88,66 takes care of both.

You should also consider your reverse implied odds (how much you will loose if you hit and isn´t best). If you hit the A or Q on the turn and you aren´t best it wont be pretty.

Also consider how likely you are to win in case you are ahead when you hit that A or Q.
Anyone with a 7 or 9 will have a gutshot for the river.
Someone with a T,8,6 will have a 5-outer aswell.

So I fold this on the flop. If it had been T32 I would probably have raised and taken a free turn card.

[Ed Miller]

doesn't raising the flop make the rest of the hand much easier to play?

If I'm in a no limit game and I have seven-deuce UTG, going all-in makes the rest of the hand damn easy to play. I'd like to see you argue that that's the correct play.

[thirddan]

[ QUOTE ]
If I'm in a no limit game and I have seven-deuce UTG, going all-in makes the rest of the hand damn easy to play. I'd like to see you argue that that's the correct play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, that was very helpful... [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Obviously since many posters here think that if you are going to continue on in this hand a raise is better than just calling here...while folding may be the best option, the Hero in this hand chose to continue...I know this may be a simple situation, but a lot of people (including me) seem to be missing something if a raise is such a bad idea...Comments??

[Ed Miller]

Thanks, that was very helpful...

Well, it should have been helpful. Making the hand easier to play is virtually never a good reason to raise. My example should have made that clear.

I know this may be a simple situation, but a lot of people (including me) seem to be missing something if a raise is such a bad idea...

You guys need to read more carefully and not infer things that shouldn't be inferred. I haven't said anything through this entire thread about raising vs. calling vs. folding. I have made two points so far:

1. This flop is far from perfect. With three cards to a straight on board, you will often make top pair and lose to either a made straight or someone who catches one on the river.
2. You aren't allowed to defend a raise by saying that it makes the hand easier to play. That is nonsense.

[TBone]

I probably shouldn't have said perfect, but I think given the preflop action, that flop isn't as scary as you make it out to be. If 4 people cold call and one of htem has 97, so be it. I make notes on that person. If UTG has 97 and calls UTG, so be it. Make notes on that person. Otherwise, I think if hero hits one of his/her cards, there's a good chance he/she wins. So, given that, and the fact that he/she raised preflop, and the fact you say being aggressive on the flop in raised, multi-way pots, I raise this flop.

Am I wrong in my thinking?

T

[Ed Miller]

I probably shouldn't have said perfect, but I think given the preflop action, that flop isn't as scary as you make it out to be. If 4 people cold call and one of htem has 97, so be it. I make notes on that person. If UTG has 97 and calls UTG, so be it. Make notes on that person.

Sounds like you must be taking a LOT of notes. If I took a note every time someone limped UTG with a hand like 97, my hand would have already fallen off.