Separate Forum for Online NL/PL?

[jrobb83]

Live and online no-limit play are simply two completely different ballgames. The restricted buy-ins create an entirely different type of environment (regardless of size), most people having small to medium stacks, with one or two large stacks. Wheras in live play with no restricted buy-in, the stacks are deeper. The strategy implications are wildly different, and that is the reason why two seperate forumns would be ideal.

While you will need to make strategy adjustments going fron 50nl to 200nl, you will need to make even greater adjustments going from a table where everybody buys in for no more than $100 to a table where most people are buying in for upwards of $500.

[turnipmonster]

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The question would be then, what would be the stakes dividing line?

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if they were to break it up like this, I think the clear dividing line is games where it is a nickel or more to go. most of the really regular live pot limit/no limit games we talk about are at or higher than 5-5. I'm thinking about the lucky chances 5-5 and 10-10-20, the hayward game (2-3 5 to go?), the east coast borgata 5-10, foxwoods 5-10(?) and PS 5-5.

lower limit NL games like the borgata 1/2, the trop 1/2 and the commerce $100 max play far differently than the games I've listed above.

all this notwithstanding, I think ML4L is right on the money with this. live big bet at any stakes is far different from online, and maybe having live big bet discussions all in one place will encourage folks to try larger blind structures.

--turnipmonster

[CrisBrown]

Hi ML,

I'm kinda new to posting in this forum, and while I can understand the significant differences between no-cap live play and online play, my concern is that those of us who are geographically limited to online play may miss out on some of the insights of the live players. If the primarily live players are indeed better -- and I don't question that as I have no basis of comparison -- that means we onliners would be missing out on some of the best advice.

This happened when they split the tournament forum. Some of the best tournament players don't play one-table sit-and-go (SNG) tourneys, or play them very rarely, so they never came to the SNG forum. Most of SNG players don't want to cross-post SNG questions in the MTT forum, which would defeat the entire purpose of having split them, so they miss out on the advice of some of these excellent players.

I understand the desire to avoid having to read (and answer) the same very basic questions (do I raise pre-flop with AK?) again and again. And I do understand that the optimal tactics vary significantly with the stakes, live vs. online (and which online site), etc. So yes, there is a benefit to splitting the forum.

But there's also a cost....

Cris

[ML4L]

Hey Cris,

I do think that there is some validity to your concern. But, in response:

1) Many players (myself, turnipmonster, and Ulysses, among others) play PL/NL both online and live. I know that I personally would read and post in both forums, and I'd imagine that the others would do the same.

2) Many of the great live players who don't play online (e.g. Matt Flynn) currently respond to online posts and probably would continue to do so. My uneducated guess is that most of the good tournament minds who do not browse the SNG forum probably didn't respond to many SNG questions to begin with, or they would put in the effort to look at the SNG forum.

So, I think that you raise a good point but that the benefits of splitting the forum outweigh the possible negatives.

ML4L

[Zeno]

Turnipmonster,

I think you hit the mark; most live games are in the nickel range. The Eldorado NL is also 2-3-5, I believe (I think the Circus-Circus in Reno has a NL but at smaller blinds and limited buy in) and most live pot-limit games are 5-5, 5-10, 10-20 etc. A few live PL games go for 1-2 or 2-4 but I don't think that many do and they will, in general, play more like the online games. The real dividing line is the 5-5 PL and the 2-3-5 NL blind structures were you are allowed to buy in for as much as you please. There is a little bit of gray area (2-4 live for example if stack sizes are large) but that is not a major problem.

So I agree with your assessment. A ‘line’ needs to be made with the understanding that it is not sacrosanct and some flexibility is allowed.

-Zeno

[scrub]

I agree that the volume of "Why isn't minraising bullets and then getting all in with an overpair on Party $25 a good idea?" posts has gotten out of hand, and that the forum probably ought to be split.

I'd sure hate to miss out on Matt, ML, Jen, GoG, Ulysses, and a few others' feedback, though. Not to tempt fate, but I think that the Small Stakes Hold 'Em board is much weaker for losing some of the MSHS posters. I hope the excellent NL players and posters will end up being like Joe Tall, CrackerZack, and a couple of other SS stalwarts. I can't tell you guys how much I've appreciated all of your feedback (even limon's... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]).

My other concern about the split is that medium to high-stakes online NL posts won't fit very well into either forum. I realize that we $400-$1000 buyin posters are a very small minority, but I think some interesting situations can develop at these tables, and I would hate to see posts of this type get completely lost in an even higher proportion of micro-NL posts.

scrub

[AJo Go All In]

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with an eye toward adding a "Gomez Forum" if deemed necessary


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this is really funny.

[limon]

cash poker is different from online poker at any stakes. they should be separated. i cant remember a single useful post concerning on line poker.

[Phat Mack]

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[Paul2432]

I vote no. My reasoning is that this forum gets only moderate traffic compared to some of the other forums. Reading all of the posts here is not too difficult.

Most of the time the subject line lets any potential readers know if the post is live vs on-line. Anyone interested exclusively in one versus the other won't have that much difficulty avoiding the posts they don't want to see.

I don't think a dedicated forum for on-line or live will create much additional posts for either subject. On the other hand, the reduced number of posts in dedicated forums could result in sufficient lack of interest to kill both new forums.


Paul