Hand to Talk About

[mike l.]

i cant really say much about this hand except that you would need to tell us something about the bb's tendencies and skill level. given no info i think the way you played it is fine but not necessarily much better than all sorts of other options.

mason, when you finally post a hand that you lost on the showdown i think we will have much more to discuss.

[alphamale1]

I would not have played it the way you did.
The benefits of your action are
1) maintained control of the hand and put alot of pressure on the BB by your turn raise, 2) possibly conditioned the SB and BB to check to you more often on your ante steals(deterring them from restealing)
3) for that hand, possibly encouraged a bluff tough it would seem that had at least a pair. Do not think they would have called your raise with nothing.

What would you have done in that instance if you missed everything on river? Bet again?

As other posters have said, I would have bet the flop. I bet it often enough when I am stealing that I would like to bet it when I have 12 or 15 outs; flush draw plus gutshot. This would seem a standard way to play this.

[scalf]

[img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] but..!!

does winning the hand on the flop maximize profits. poker is a game of situations...to win consistently; ya gotta maximize cash won...not win the pot the quickest; necessarily...note there were only six small bets in pot before the flop...as the pot gats larger; the more ya wanta win it right there...and vice/versa..

jmho..gl [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[karlson]

So I kind of like these hands where you represent a slowplay. I understand that often you'll run into opponents who will fold a J or even a Q to your turn raise whereas they would have called you down had you bet the flop. Heck, you may even get an extra bet from the turn bluff if no one had anything.

The danger here is that perhaps someone with a hand like a 6, 88, or perhaps even a J, who would have folded to your flop bet decides to call you down (instead of betting out like your opponent actually did) because you checked the flop. Now, about half the time, you'll lose the pot. I suppose this is a matter of knowing your opponents, and I guess the 80/160 Bellagio players are more aggressive than this.

So, if you're certain that a 6 or a J will call you on the flop, this makes a lot of sense, since also, with this flop, there's no danger of giving a free card to someone who would have folded (except for the bottom end of the straight, perhaps).

Thanks Mason.

P.S. I really don't understand why no one has yet mentioned the fact that many players in BB's spot will fold a Q, and almost certainly a J. Am I crazy to believe this?

[astroglide]

i like it. it looks like you slowplayed a monster, which will cause many jacks or even a queen to fold.

[TJSWAN]

Garland & Co.,

I think Mason has enough outs to allow the flop being checked thru, thus inducing the bluff on the turn. He then raises and is only called. I think he would have won this one on the river regardless of another [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] hitting or not.
Net reult 2 extra BB vs. none if he wins it outright on the flop.


Tim

[mike l.]

"I think he would have won this one on the river regardless of another hitting or not."

youre wrong. or else why would the bb have called the turn. mason was likely beat on the flop and turn.

[mikelow]

Now, I know the obvious play is to bet the flop, which 99.9% of holdem players would do.

I would have bet the flop. And I would have gotten two folds. So your way is better, though riskier.

[TJSWAN]

Mike i,

Why didn't BB 3 bet then ??
Coulnd't BB be bluffing?


PS. Enjoy your posts.

Tim

[astroglide]

it can be less risky. consider, for example, if the opponent has the Kd and mason bets the flop. bb checkraises, mason calls, calls the turn, and folds the river. also note that's 2 bbs (1 on the flop, 1 on the turn). if he checks the flop and raises the turn against the exact same hand, he puts in those same 2bbs and wins. there's also the already-mentioned ability to make his opponent fold a better hand more reliably.

and yes, i know he could 3bet the flop if checkraised but this is one of many ways that it could play out. i think that the way he played it has the best chances of making his opponent fold a better hand, the best chance of him seeing a showdown if he has the better hand, and strengthens his payout if he does strike a flush.