Mandalay Bay 4-8: Folded 10 outer on the flop

[AviD]

Hey Cracker...I see your avatar and constantly wonder wtf that is from...please explain! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Thanks meng! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[CrackerZack]

Jim Boeheim and Carmelo Anthony with the NCAA tournament trophy. Syracuse Orangemen, 2003 NCAA Men's basketball national champions! YEAH BABY!

[rharless]

Wondering what others think about the KQo raise from UTG

I raise it over half but not all of the time. In this structure I think it is even more important to raise it pf.

Plus, I know with an UTG raise, I probably won't have to deal with kong or clarky playing against me. There's a LOT of value in that one. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[rharless]

Homer, I try not to get into those preflop situations in the BB. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I used to fold regularly, now I have been experimenting with calling one unless I know UTG to have a narrow opening range. If SB folds, I still pretty much always fold.

I wonder somewhat if I had an reasonable read on the $10 PF bettor, based on some discussion with CM/MK post-hand. Clarky in particular pointed out he was raising often and we haven't seen those hands to know what he's been raising with. I really don't remember a 3-bet from him in any other hand, though.

[magithighs]

Personally, I don't like KQo pre-flop raise in a normal game. Only better hands will go in -- and likely they will be re-raising, as you've seen. So, you don't get much, other than knocking out clark or kong.

IMO a KQo raise UTG is a bluff that must be carried out like you have AA-TT, AK -- on later hands it will be harder to put you on an UTG hand and you'll get more calls later.

So, play the bluff out. You only have one player to beat -- not a bad situation. Now's the time to play the player and forget about what you're holding.

Has he folded before, after re-raising or showing strength? If so, I'd be working to get him to fold. First, I would have capped the flop. But you didn't so, lets play that out.

You need to represent an over pair that's afraid of AK -- since you didn't represent AA, or KK by not cappying.

So, a check raise on the flop would be a great move. I think you could take it down right there.

If he re-raises the check raise -- fold, as he's not going anywhere. You've only tossed in a BB and have shown the table that you will check-raise. You'll get this BB back later on a check-raise that you hold -- a good player will likely play back, on one of your real check-raises to get you to fold. So, you don't lose much.

If he calls the check-raise, you can put him on AK draw. Unless he's a really good player, I wouldn't put him on a small pocket that won't fold.

Then I'd come out firing on the turn and river if no A or K drops.

And, if you actually make your hand, I'd still play it as if you have the big pocket overpair.

Gl

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
Wondering what others think about the KQo raise from UTG

I raise it over half but not all of the time. In this structure I think it is even more important to raise it pf.

Plus, I know with an UTG raise, I probably won't have to deal with kong or clarky playing against me. There's a LOT of value in that one. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

It is absolutely mandatory to raise it preflop in this structure. 100% of the time, from any position for me.

[Elizabeth]

[ QUOTE ]
If he raises...you know for certain you are behind...

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you know this for certain. I'd occasionally make this raise with AK, especially with this T high flop.

If I'm up against and UTG raiser and I have position on him, and he bets into me on a T high flop ... I have to assume that he knows that flop isn't likely to have hit me, and he's putting me to the test. But this flop isn't likely to have hit UTG either. The querstion becomes, does one of us have a pair? I'm just simply not going to take his word for it when he's getting 6:1 on a bluff. There are 2 more cards coming too, which I might get for 2 SB if I raise.

I actually like Homer's suggestion - a preflop flod isn't out of thee qurestion. If there's a hand to raise UTG and fold to a reraise - it's KQo. UTG got caught making a loose raise.

[MaxPower]

Whoops! I divided by 3 instead of 4. Your good, Homer.

So its 7:1, do you think she should call?

I think she did the right thing by folding. A Jack is the only clean out.

[MaxPower]

My apologies rharless. Please excuse my use of the masculine pronoun.

[Elizabeth]

Clarkmeister, I respect your opinion so I'm a little surprised that you would raise KQo in any position. I udnerstand that it's a raise or fold hand, but here the blinds are half size. There's less money in the pot to start, so you should tighten up preflop. KQo isn't so hot in a normal structure, so my instinct is to fold it in EP.