Folding AA on Coordinated Flop...

[Shillx]

Are you even thinking about this hand? Who is beating us here?

We totally destroy the 3-bettor here. He is drawing super thin against us like 90% of the time. It is very dangerous to assume that the flop bettor is beating us here. You can't wait to fold AA here just to see that the 3-bettor has JJ and the flop bettor has a flush draw? Terrible.

Brad

I wasn't worried about the 3-bettor. There were two people betting before him, and the 3-bettor gave me terrible odds to continue.

[El Tigre]

i'm pretty sure u guys are way off, i do think you are ahead of the KK-JJ of the CO, but do you really have ~25% equity! Not a chance in hell. I youre up against KK, 6's with a flush draw and say J8, you are not good here. 2 kings 2 6's 8 hearts 2 jacks, 14 outs. you could easily be up against UTG's 87o as he limped and then called the raise as opposed to calling 2 cold. Hell you could be drawing to a runner runner quads/full house. You may write this off as weak tight thinking, but it doesnt look like anyone is going anywhere and u dont have the best hand or draw at this point!

[Shillx]

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I wasn't worried about the 3-bettor. There were two people betting before him, and the 3-bettor gave me terrible odds to continue.

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How does the 3-bettor give you terrible odds when he is thin money? If anything, you welcome his money going in since he is oftentimes drawing to 2 outs or less.

There is just no reason to believe that you are behind here. A flop bet could be just about any thing here (flush draw, gutshot, pair) and a raise right behind him doesn't mean that your AA is toast. The 3-bet is of insignificance at this point since we kill his 3-betting range. The pot is big and we have little to no evidence that we are beat. Get in there and play some poker.

Brad

[ArturiusX]

I still remember the first roasting I ever got by shill... it was a set that turned a 3 to a flush board. Convinced someone had the set, I folded. What I did take into account was my fullhouse outs.

Yeah, I never made that mistake again [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Now the turn comes a 3. It's bet and raised to you again. Still call down (or raise)? It ends up being capped. Call?

What evidence would ever convince you your overpair is beaten?

So... you had the set, and you were convinced someone had the flush, right? Your wording was ambiguous. I would have called there in hopes of filling up that boat.

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
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I wasn't worried about the 3-bettor. There were two people betting before him, and the 3-bettor gave me terrible odds to continue.

[/ QUOTE ]

How does the 3-bettor give you terrible odds when he is thin money? If anything, you welcome his money going in since he is oftentimes drawing to 2 outs or less.

There is just no reason to believe that you are behind here. A flop bet could be just about any thing here (flush draw, gutshot, pair) and a raise right behind him doesn't mean that your AA is toast. The 3-bet is of insignificance at this point since we kill his 3-betting range. The pot is big and we have little to no evidence that we are beat. Get in there and play some poker.

Brad

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Shillx I had an entire report written up to disagree with you. Then I reread each post of yours twice, and realized I hadn't taken into account how meaningless the CO 3-bet is. Yeah this is a call on the flop for sure.

Tread carefully though, OP. Let's say the following hands are out against you:

JJ
AhJh
JT
98
K9

You have about 25% equity in this spot. I still maintain that in the $.5/1 it is not at all unreasonable for the cold-callers to show up with the nuts or middle set here every now and then and leave you drawing practically dead. But the pot is [censored] huge.

I think capping the flop is absolutely horrible though. For one, you just don't have the equity and nobody is folding anything you want out of the hand. Secondly, if you cap the flop the turn checks to you and you give the field in the neighborhood of ~20:1 on a turn call. If you call the flop (and CO's 3-bet is the last action), you're set up in a decent spot to face everyone with two cold on the turn. Despite the (probably) favorable pot odds everyone will be getting, it's the best chance you have of protecting your hand I would think.

[Marquis]

Capping the flop is horrible with likely the best hand? You don't want to face SB with 3 bets?

[DavidC]

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People do wacky things in big multiway pots. Call the 3-bet and call down from there.

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Here's a hand from my days of playing poker when I didn't seek out opportunities to fold the nuts.

example