I really hate pocket pairs...

[@bsolute_luck]

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See that is what people say, but I am really crap at playing these PP against raisers. With that in mind, this would just feel like spewing. Suppose I 3 bet, and the same flop happens?

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nothing would change. there's just more of other people's money in the pot for you to win [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] lead out just like it looks like you did in this hand.

[numeri]

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against an unknown, i check/call and see the turn.

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No offense, but I don't get this line. What is your plan on the turn? If we check, villain will bet again because of his fold equity, and we really can't call again on the turn, can we? I prefer to bet out and see what happens.

[aces_dad]

Yeah it would be our last chance to get J's or 10's to fold as I'm not betting this for value.

[shant]

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See that is what people say, but I am really crap at playing these PP against raisers. With that in mind, this would just feel like spewing. Suppose I 3 bet, and the same flop happens?

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I'm saying that here because you are 3-handed and you more than likely have the best hand. Also, this flop is pretty good for you, and you may take it down with a bet on the flop.

[@bsolute_luck]

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against an unknown, i check/call and see the turn.

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No offense, but I don't get this line. What is your plan on the turn? If we check, villain will bet again because of his fold equity, and we really can't call again on the turn, can we? I prefer to bet out and see what happens.

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you could be right, but i'll ask you the 2 question that i had:
what do you do if you're raised?
what do you do if you're called. because i'm not raising you if I have the A or probably any high pocket pair (KK-TT). the only hands i might raise you with are like 77, 88. so you're in the same position. if i have high UI overcards, i figure all 6 outs are good, so i'm not folding. that's just my opinion.

you're reasoning for betting out is the same reason for me to check/call. i don't see us having much folding equity; i don't know what hands you put villain on but KQ(maybe J) are the only hands we're ahead of right now. you bet to figure we have the best hand, i check/call because i figure we have the best hand.

the turn is scary regardless of what line we have. some will say to bet the turn to fold lower pocket pairs. again if i have QQ-TT, i doubt you have the K, as i don't think you'd bet out on this flop, so i figure you for some small/mid pocket pair. i'm not folding this turn- though w/o a read, i guess an unknown might.

but i will raise whatever i have in my hand on this turn because i believe my fold equity (as villain) has just increased greatly. i'm just explaining my line.

i actually think c/r is better, but i think betting out accomplished very little. again i could be mistaken [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[Greg J]

Wow -- that is really not a bad flop for you. You should lead out here approx 100% of the time.

[RatFink]

What K would he hold that would call the flop bet that you weren't already behind to? The turn card could be anything that is not a 9 and you are in the same situation being out-of-position.

Bet and fold to a raise. Anytime you check you will have to fold. You have one chance to fold out a PP higher than your 99 and this is it.

I think any more money put in past this turn bet would be spewing.

[deception5]

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No offense, but I don't get this line. What is your plan on the turn? If we check, villain will bet again because of his fold equity, and we really can't call again on the turn, can we? I prefer to bet out and see what happens.

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I agree, we need to find out if we have the best hand now. We have almost no outs and check/calling is only going to delay the inevitable loss if we're behind and lose the initiative.

I would have 3-bet preflop and lead the flop. This would give you a lot more information on this flop. First off if he capped you know you are pretty much screwed when this flop came down rather than spending a bunch of money after the flop to find out and can pretty much check/fold. Second if he didn't cap, the range of hands he has to put you on is much smaller.

He might think there's no way you don't have an ace here or QQ+. For 1SB you may get your opponent to incorrectly fold TT/JJ. Another line would be to call the raise preflop, check/raise the flop, and lead the turn (this would look especially daunting to him if the turn was a K and he had JJ/TT). If he 3-bets or raises you on the turn you can easily drop the hand. Again he may incorrectly put you on an ace here.

It also makes a great deal of difference what type of opponent you are against. If your opponent will call down with JJ no matter what comes you might as well check/fold after the flop bet.

[numeri]

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Another line would be to call the raise preflop, check/raise the flop, and lead the turn (this would look especially daunting to him if the turn was a K and he had JJ/TT). If he 3-bets or raises you on the turn you can easily drop the hand. Again he may incorrectly put you on an ace here.

It also makes a great deal of difference what type of opponent you are against. If your opponent will call down with JJ no matter what comes you might as well check/fold after the flop bet.

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I was thinking about both of these ideas. Knowing more information about villain would really help here.

One question about this line - what happens if we C/R the flop, (villain just calls) and the turn goes bet/call? What then?

[Note to self: Being out of position sucks.]

[deception5]

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One question about this line - what happens if we C/R the flop, (villain just calls) and the turn goes bet/call? What then?

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I'm planning to check/fold. There's pretty much nothing he could be calling the turn bet with that we beat. Even most hands that beat us will check behind on the river.