|
|
#11
08-13-2005, 12:47 AM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: I suck at the river, part 1
[ QUOTE ]
I don't see how he's really gaining anything by betting here. [/ QUOTE ] We're gonna have to agree to disagree, because you're wrong here. Betting will gain value from worse hands. Checking will not, unless you have a very specific read that your opponents are relentless value bettors/bluffers. Rob 
|
|
#12
08-13-2005, 12:48 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: I suck at the river, part 1
[ QUOTE ]
I don't agree. I don't think Hero is getting two calls on the river from worse hands with this board. He's losing at least 1BB when he's behind and gets check-raised or called down. He's only winning 1BB (rarely 2BBs and rarely 0BBs) when he bet's the river with a winner. I don't see how he's really gaining anything by betting here. [/ QUOTE ] Meh... I suppose for this to be true we need to be splitting winning/losing 50/50. I suppose that we're probably ahead here a bit more than 50% of the time (not positive about this). But if this were the case it would make a bet/fold the correct play.
|
|
#13
08-13-2005, 12:57 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: I suck at the river, part 1
I still don't understand why we are folding to a raise, Rob.
Is it because a donk won't raise with AT or AQ on the river? I don't think we can assume this is the case without a more specific read besides "donk". A flush isn't particularly likely on this board. A jack is very possible, but is it so much more probable than two pair that we can't even call getting 12.5-1? Also, what if it is EP who checkraises?
|
|
#14
08-13-2005, 01:01 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: I suck at the river, part 1
[ QUOTE ]
I still don't understand why we are folding to a raise, Rob. Is it because a donk won't raise with AT or AQ on the river? I don't think we can assume this is the case without a more specific read besides "donk". A flush isn't particularly likely on this board. A jack is very possible, but is it so much more probable than two pair that we can't even call getting 12.5-1? Also, what if it is EP who checkraises? [/ QUOTE ] That river card has to be equally as scary to our opponents as it is to us. When Hero, who has been the flop/turn aggressor, continues to bet, hands that have improved, but are still second best are probably not raising.
|
|
#15
08-13-2005, 01:08 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: I suck at the river, part 1
meh, I guess you're right. with a one card straight possibility out there, donks aren't raising without the goods.
i don't think i'd be able to make the fold at the table, i guess i'm stuck into the "don't fold for 1 bet on the river in a big pot" mindset.
|
|
#16
08-13-2005, 01:11 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: I suck at the river, part 1
[ QUOTE ]
i guess i'm stuck into the "don't fold for 1 bet on the river in a big pot" mindset. [/ QUOTE ] Which is why I don't really like betting the river in the first place. But I have to reverse and agree with Entity - It's the correct play.
|
|
#17
08-13-2005, 02:31 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
results
I'm still digesting all these responses. I'm glad that one of my posts finally generated some discussion.
Here are results, in case that helps. I've been getting check-raised on the river all the time lately, which is definitely screwing with my head (see my other "i suck on the river post" for evidence). Had it been heads-up, i would have happily checked behind here, but with the donk in, i thought i might have a value bet. Does the donk's presence at the river change my action at all? On the plus side, all this river tomfoolery is causing me to look really hard at my river play, which will hopefully result in me plugging some leaks. Thanks for the comments. EP limps, Hero raises, MP Donk calls, Someone else calls, BB calls. Flop (10 SB): K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] BB checks, EP checks, Hero bets, Donk calls, Someone else folds, BB folds, EP calls. Turn (6.5 BB): Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] EP checks, Hero bets, Donk calls, EP calls River (9.5 BB): A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] EP checks, Hero bets, Donk folds, EP raises, Hero calls. EP shows T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
|
|
#18
08-13-2005, 03:28 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: I suck at the river, part 1
You have to bet this river for value. If you get raised I would call the raise also. One of those players could have very well been on a diamond flush draw. I doubt anyone got a backdoor flush draw against you. If someone has two pair you have the best two pair. The only thing that hurts you is a J.
So bet the river here for value. If you get raised, call, you are getting good pot odds to do so.
|
|
#19
08-13-2005, 03:33 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: I suck at the river, part 1
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I don't see how he's really gaining anything by betting here. [/ QUOTE ] We're gonna have to agree to disagree, because you're wrong here. Betting will gain value from worse hands. Checking will not, unless you have a very specific read that your opponents are relentless value bettors/bluffers. Rob [/ QUOTE ] Entity, how do you fold here to a raise when you are getting such good pot odds?
|
|
#20
08-13-2005, 04:00 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: results
[ QUOTE ]
EP shows T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] . [/ QUOTE ] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] isn't the T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] on the flop? anyway you need to fold to that c/r
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
