AJ on a monotone board , yes?

[wackjob]

Its pretty straightforward: 3-bet preflop, because AJ is a 3bet hand pretty standard for anyone playing SH.

On the flop, you have TP with a good kicker and are looking at lots of ways of being beaten. If you figure to have the best hand on the flop you MUST raise, else you give everyone great odds to call to the flush. If you don't figure to have the best hand on the flop.. fold, but I don't see that happening. It is a BAD play to let people draw cheaply, it is a GOOD play to make them pay as much as you can to draw out on you. I think this is like fundamnetal poker.

[JoshuaD]

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I like betting this flop.

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I don't like getting called and then raised here at all, and it's a pretty likely outcome. I'd rather check-raise than bet out.

[JoshuaD]

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Its pretty straightforward: 3-bet preflop, because AJ is a 3bet hand pretty standard for anyone playing SH.

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OOP against 3 opponents with AJo it seems better to just call and check-raise a good flop.

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On the flop, you have TP with a good kicker and are looking at lots of ways of being beaten. If you figure to have the best hand on the flop you MUST raise, else you give everyone great odds to call to the flush. If you don't figure to have the best hand on the flop.. fold, but I don't see that happening. It is a BAD play to let people draw cheaply, it is a GOOD play to make them pay as much as you can to draw out on you. I think this is like fundamnetal poker.

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I can't offer them incorrect odds on the flop, but I probably can on the turn. Like I said earlier, it's profitable to raise them on the flop, but it's more profitable to wait until a non-heart falls on the turn.

[wackjob]

You say you like c/r on on the flop.. yet you didn't do it? If you just want to argue and not listen to the advice being given, why post in the first place? No one here is saying this is absolutely the right way to play it all the time, but most of the responses given have disagreed with your play & your reasoning. Sounds like you = stubborn putz.

[JoshuaD]

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You say you like c/r on on the flop.. yet you didn't do it?

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I said I like a C/R on the flop when it's a safe board. I was very tempted to C/R this flop (and like I said earlier, I like it better than betting out), but I think that waiting until the turn increases our EV, for the reasons I said above.

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If you just want to argue and not listen to the advice being given, why post in the first place?

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I ask for advice so I can be convinced that I was wrong or right. If I haven't been convinced I continue to argue, otherwise the advice is useless. This hand isn't ever going to come up again, and if I'm not convinced, I'm not gaining anything by asking for advice. Don't get offended by this, I'm not attacking you, I'm arguing the hand.


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No one here is saying this is absolutely the right way to play it all the time, but most of the responses given have disagreed with your play & your reasoning. Sounds like you = stubborn putz.

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That's precisely why I'm pushing this issue. Everyone's disagreeing with me here and after talking to a few people and looking at the hand some more, I'm still convinced my analysis is right. I want to figure out whether you guys are wrong or whether I am. If it's me, I want to find out exactly why I'm wrong so I don't make the same mistake again.

I'm looking to become a better player, and the best way to do that is to understand why I'm wrong when I am. The only way to do that is through argument and discussion.

[rivered]

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You say you like c/r on on the flop.. yet you didn't do it? If you just want to argue and not listen to the advice being given, why post in the first place? No one here is saying this is absolutely the right way to play it all the time, but most of the responses given have disagreed with your play & your reasoning. Sounds like you = stubborn putz.

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Agreeing with something blindly isn't useful. About as much as name calling. Seems to me the only reason to check raise the flop is that you are worried about the turn being checked around. Seems rather unlikely.

[wackjob]

By checking this flop you change the draw for a flush draw from 10to1 to 5to1 & get money in a pot where you are likely the favorite. I don't see how this is bad. Could you please explain how taking the best hand and check/calling with it and giving people better odds to call is a smart play?

I equate playing the "if the turn is NOT a heart" play to buying payment insurance for your credit card: if you die, do you really care if the payment gets made?

[JoshuaD]

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By checking this flop you change the draw for a flush draw from 10to1 to 5to1 & get money in a pot where you are likely the favorite. I don't see how this is bad. Could you please explain how taking the best hand and check/calling with it and giving people better odds to call is a smart play?

I equate playing the "if the turn is NOT a heart" play to buying payment insurance for your credit card: if you die, do you really care if the payment gets made?

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I don't disagree that getting involved on the flop is profitable. You're right in your assesment of that.

However, if we just check/call the flop, and then check-raise a non-heart, we'll make MORE money two ways. First, we save money when the heart comes in and the action goes like it did in this hand. Secondly, we are able to offer them worse odds on the turn than we were able to on the flop, and for more money, while they're draw has been significantly weakened.

If you've got SSH, check out page 160: "When a raise will not protect your hand." The example hand is different, but it seems to have very many of the same aspects.

[PokerBob]

lead the flop.....you may even fold a better ace

[wackjob]

A flop raise is not intended to protect your hand. Getting 5:1 to call for a flush is still correct odds, however you 1) build the pot 2) cut the pot odds in HALF