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#1
07-11-2005, 06:42 AM
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Re: I wait to raise the turn with 88. Things don\'t go so well from there.
Ok, I figured I botched it by not raising the flop, thanks all for setting me straight.
My thinking was I wasn't folding the pre-flop raiser off of overs on the flop (based on the play I had seen from him thus far) so I figured I kind of needed the turn raise to be the spot to protect my hand, and well, things fell apart from there. The reasons you guys have given to prefer the flop raise make sense, and will probably better define my opponents hands as well. So, next time I take a shot at this level, hopefully I get it right. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Thanks again, Nigel 
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#2
07-11-2005, 09:51 AM
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Re: I wait to raise the turn with 88. Things don\'t go so well from there.
Good thread all around.
If you've REALLY got a solid read that the PFR won't release overcards on a rag flop, then you played it correctly. Otherwise I agree with the other posts and think you need to put pressure on the hand that you know has two overcards (or an overpair that you can learn about now rather than more expensively later). JimmyV
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#3
07-11-2005, 10:16 AM
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Re: I wait to raise the turn with 88. Things don\'t go so well from there.
You played OK. However, it's a TERRIBLE turn call by AK and you can't really give him credit for that specific hand when he calls. Actually I would be leaning more towards something like A-9s, which would at least give him a gutshot straight draw on the high side and the pretty much just as useful Ace as what would be the case with AK here (both lose to two pair hands, and there won't be any AQ or AJ out there).
lars
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#4
07-11-2005, 10:49 AM
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Re: I wait to raise the turn with 88. Things don\'t go so well from there.
When I got to your flop call while reading this I thought "Ugh". You gotta raise that flop IMO. PFR will be getting 7-1 on his call, which puts him to a really tough decision if he merely has overs. If the pot was larger I would say wait until the turn, as you cannot protect your hand. But in this case you can, so raise.
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#5
07-11-2005, 11:05 AM
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Re: I wait to raise the turn with 88. Things don\'t go so well from there.
Raise the flop and put pressure on the preflop raiser. It protects your hand a bit and makes the rest easier to play. BTW, how many good cards can come on the turn?
P.S. Did the hand take place at the Borg 40-80 or 80-160 game...it seems kind of familiar, but I played a lot of hands this weekend so my memory is kinda fuzzy. Jeff
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#6
07-11-2005, 12:36 PM
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Re: I wait to raise the turn with 88. Things don\'t go so well from there.
The problem with waiting with a raggedy flop is that the turn card is frequently an overcard and that will often cause the flop bettor to check. Another advantage of raising is that anyone with just overcards on the turn will be less likely to take one off on the turn if you raised the flop and then bet the turn, as opposed to if you just called the flop and then bet the turn.
"I call (I am planning on raising a good turn card and also seeing what the PFR's and BB's action is on the flop, and button only calls." I'd get more of an idea about the strength of their holdings by raising, rather than by just calling.
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