A hand that's been bothering me

[@bsolute_luck]

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kinda hard to check it through when I'm faced with two bets.

The question is, reraise, call or fold.

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color code the damn thing. sorry i was looking for colors and figured it was checked to you. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[irishpint]

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Raise. If SB is pushing his stack in, he'll cap (likely with garbage) and BB will be facing 3 cold.


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2 cold

[deception5]

Raise. BB may also have noticed the short stack and may be trying to isolate. Even if not, you likely have the best hand and there are not a lot of players so you don't need to worry so much about waiting until the turn to protect. The pot is already good sized so you'd like to take it down rather than worrying about building it. I think this is an easy raise.

[flopwell]

reraise. SB is gonna toss in his last chips and come along for the ride, and you also have a bd2fd if BB does have a set.

[McGahee]

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I don't think 3-betting here is useful, as it seems you are behind and drawing slim if you are. I'd call the two cold and see what the turn offers me. If it's one or more bets back to me UI, I'd fold.

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Sounds good to me, except I'm not folding for a single turn bet. Besides the previously mentioned outs, running board-pairing cards or a 7 could give you the best 2 pair.

[crownjules]

Yeah, I rethought that immediately after I posted it and then got caught up doing 'work' (imagine that!). I would call one bet, but not more.

To those advocating the 3-bet:

Our two opponents are categorized as straightforward loose passives, one of which is at the end of his chips. Even though hero is the preflop raiser, it is two bets to him. A few suggest BB is doing nothing more than raising to isolate with top pair. I have to ask how many passive players do you know to suddenly switch gears and become aggressive? Isolation raises are aggressive and I seriously doubt a passive player would attempt such a move. Add to the fact that this is a passive player raising INTO a preflop raiser...

I have a hard time thinking that BB is raising to isolate with a hand we beat. I think a 3-bet is spewage.

[Henke]

Well, I expected that most 2+2:ers would say 3-bet here, and that's just what I did. SB of course commited the last portion of his stack to the pot and it was capped, so BB could just call. He bet out on the turn instead, when the A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] fell.

But what I've been thinking about after playing the hand is how much I should trust my read. How often is a loose passive guy raising something into a preflop raiser that doesn't beat TPTK? Especially if he's been playing straightforward. So that basically means I'm playing a drawing hand...

But ok, the pot is big, and I've got 2 outs for a high set that's probably good (if BB has a set or 2 pair, then a K can't help his hand, it's just SB that might ruin it, but he could basically have anything). I've got about 1 out for a bd str8 and one out for a bd flush. Also, I'm probably going to get 4 more outs from turn to river to make a higher two-pair if that's what he's holding.

But... Next problem here is SB. He's already pot-commited having invested half his stack. He's probably not going to hesitate to try to invest the other half. So I'm going to face at least 3 bets here, if BB doesn't cap it. So basically, I'm hoping to get 15:3 or 5:1 here... And since SB isn't going to be around much longer, I don't have much of implied odds here.

My guess is that my read would have to be off here about 20% of the time for my call to be correct, which I don't think it is... But otoh, is that line of thinking weak?

[VBM]

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Based on your reads, you have to figure you're up against a BB that has two pair or a set. Loose-passives don't usually bet/raise their flush draws.

I don't think 3-betting here is useful, as it seems you are behind and drawing slim if you are. I'd call the two cold and see what the turn offers me. If it's one or more bets back to me UI, I'd fold.

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IMO, this is far too narrow a range to define villain's hand and dictating your subsequent action. additionally, if you do believe you're this far behind, you should just fold the flop rather than call 2, as you're only drawing to 2 clean outs. if the board pairs, you have no clue whether it fills up BB, makes him quads, or if you just counterfeited him.

i 3-bet this flop. if BB plays back at me, i'll call 1 more and i'm probably done on the turn. if he calls my 3-bet, i bet most turn cards.

[PokerSparky]

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He bet out on the turn instead, when the A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] fell.

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You should have posted the turn action in your OP as well. A three bet on the flop is pretty automatic IMO, but an A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dropping on the turn (and BB betting out) makes this hand much more interesting. You're in a tough spot on the turn. I think you may be able to find a fold here. I don't think calling down is horrible though.

Edit: Actually you may have up to 6 outs on the turn so I think you have to call.

[Asim]

well, loose-passive.. from what I understand and what I have been reading..

loose = play a lot of hands
passive = wont raise much, more of a caller.

if this is the case, a passive player raising would suggest someone has a strong hand. could be a 2pr or set.. considering you raised PF and noone checked it to you suggests that they probably hit something decent.

honestly though, I would cap it.. if they check to you, they may have just hit top pair with good kickers or something like that, you never know.. I would try and cap it, see a free on the river and act accordingly, or bet the river, get raised and fold... some options that you may wanna try? would capping be a bad move? micro-limit gurus? lol