Overcards hand from the archive

[brettbrettr]

This used to be an auto-raise for me until I realized it was an autowaste. I'm just calling here.

[Hoi Polloi]

[ QUOTE ]
I like a raise unless a free card is rare at this table.Since you are almost always holding two live cards and you have the backdoor flush you don't have to get a free card exceptionally often for this raise to be valuable. This flop is very ragged and as such you are unlikely to get 3-bet by typical party 3/6ers. I'd be surprised if the archives suggest anything but a raise; this seems almost textbook.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is textbook. Raise for the free card if you think you'll get it most of the time. Take the freebie unless you hit an OC.

If you don't think villain(s) will give you the freebie then you're playing a fairly weak draw (BDF helps) against several opponents and you may already be reverse dominated. I call here and hope everybody calls along with no raises.

[molawn2mo]

Extremely table dependent situation. If you think that a freecard is possible, then the raise is fine. If not, then call. Versus aware opps, the flop raise can be reasonably construed as a FCP.

Either line is playable. In the instant case, if you have availed yourself of a recent FCP or if EP is aggro, then a flop call seems appropriate.

[BigEndian]

I call here sometimes getting odds to improve and the backdoor draws. I also raise here sometimes looking to get a free card depending on what the turn brings or firing out again if I think I can win it right then.

If BB (not SB, SB folded) goes away, that's nice, but that's not the objective.

- Jim

[MHarris]

I like raising here with the intention of taking a free card UI on the turn. This gives you a chance to fold BB and clean up some outs if he holds something like A2 or A4.

[Padawan Learner]

Justin:

[ QUOTE ]
I sometimes call and sometimes raise here. I'll basically never raise if my opponents aren't the type to just call and then check to me on the turn. I hate a raise if I'm going to get 3bet or they donkbet the turn even a relatively small percentage of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is the right answer. The more likely I that I will get a freecard (ie the more passive the players) the more likely I am to raise. If my opponents are aggressive I will most likely just call. I can't see myself folding here.

[belloc]

[ QUOTE ]
This used to be an auto-raise for me until I realized it was an autowaste. I'm just calling here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? It seems like a classic free card play. Is there something about the particulars of this hand that you don't like (reads, board texture)? Or is it that you think the free card play is bad in itself?

[brettbrettr]

NO, I should have qualified my response to include the I'll raise if I think I'll be able to snag a freebie. If so, then yes. I guess I was getting repopped a lot so I've been more careful about raising in this spot.

[jba]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This used to be an auto-raise for me until I realized it was an autowaste. I'm just calling here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? It seems like a classic free card play. Is there something about the particulars of this hand that you don't like (reads, board texture)? Or is it that you think the free card play is bad in itself?

[/ QUOTE ]

You know for me it totally depends on the table

I was playing 8/16 at the wynn a couple weeks ago. On a hand like this where I raise preflop, flop is rags... if I raised that flop at the wynn, I'm getting 3bet or donked about 95% of the time. The players were just too aggressive, they catch any piece of that raggedy flop or straight or flush draw or just thinking you must only have overs, and they would really come after you. Raising this hand here is just spewing in this case, I believe. You're not winning this unimproved, and you have what amounts to a very weak draw in a multiway pot.

OTOH.... foxwoods 5/10 last weekend. this table was SO passive that I'm buying a free card here about 80% of the time. at this table I'm raising this a LOT -- anyone who caught a 7 or has pocket pair is going to seriously slow down and just relinquish control of the pot. In a pot this big, having control of the betting and position is $$$$$


my point is, it really depends on your competition. For SSHE I think you're right this is the classic free card play.

[molawn2mo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This used to be an auto-raise for me until I realized it was an autowaste. I'm just calling here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? It seems like a classic free card play.

[/ QUOTE ]

This statement is exactly to the point. It reads as a classic FCP and, as such, aggro opps understand that and 3 bet you or call and SnG the turn.