$80-$160 Hand: Request For Comments - Page 2

Mason Malmuth · #11 12-09-2002, 01:06 AM

I play it exactly the same. Also, if a jack comes on the river, he may not always check. Now you sometimes get two bets.

MM

Mason Malmuth · #12 12-09-2002, 01:10 AM

Hi MJ:

I think you have a logic flaw. On the hands you list where you don't have an overlay, it's not an overlay by much. On the other hands you have an overlay by a fair amount. I suspect that when combined you stll have the best of it.

Best wishes,
Mason

Mason Malmuth · #13 12-09-2002, 01:16 AM

I agree that counting the ace as 1.5 bets is correct, but you also need to consider that those other 1.5 times they will cost you a bet. Of course this balance out the 1.5 times that he checks the river and you bet.

In either case, you still play through the river.

MM

Mason Malmuth · #14 12-09-2002, 01:25 AM

Again there is a logic flaw here. If trapped, you lose another bet. If an ace comes and it is good, you win a very large pot. This means you can get trapped an awful lot if an occasional ace is good and still come out ahead.

MM

Mason Malmuth · #15 12-09-2002, 01:29 AM

I'm not so sure about three betting the flop. Remember, Jim three bet before the flop, so he has essentially told his opponent that he started with a very strong hand and still got check raised on the flop. This indicates that his opponent may be stronger than what a normal check raise situation would indicate. Thus if Jim makes it three bets the probability of it going to four bets is higher than usual.

MM

Ed Miller · #16 12-09-2002, 02:09 AM

As you said in another post... he is checkraising a preflop 3-bettor... a strong move. That makes the stronger holdings more likely than they would otherwise be. Having read the other discussion here, though... I am beginning to agree that you might have an overlay here. Do you call the end when you don't improve, though?

Rick Nebiolo · #17 12-09-2002, 03:32 AM

Mason,

When I read the post I thought a three bet on the flop should be considered. If you get four bet you "know" your ace is no longer an out and can procede accordingly. But often enough you get called and checked to on the turn. In this spot I'd take the free turn and call or bet the river if an ace comes.

Regards,

Rick

PS Wish I could post more but I've been tied up or playing stud/8 lately.

Mason Malmuth · #18 12-09-2002, 03:46 AM

Your decision on the end should be based upon what you think. That is if compared to the size of the pot you think he will bluff often enough, and you can beat a bluff, you should call. Note: He won't have to bluff very often for this to be the case.

MM

Rick Nebiolo · #19 12-09-2002, 04:12 AM

... I may have posted this a few days ago on one of the twenty or so forums here (I'm getting forgettful early in life) but your recent Card Player article regarding moving up was excellent. Glad to see you doing well.

Regards,

Rick

cybertilt · #20 12-09-2002, 10:21 AM

Jim I read your book, protecting yourself from the storm was a key phrase. We have to assume ( without addition information) that the small blind started with a resonable hand. With the check raise he is saying "I caught a piece of the flop". That leaves only AK, KK, QQ, or maybe KQ of which your A is a dog to 3 out of 4. There is no discounting the A overlay, exclude it completely, leaving you 4 outs and pots odds that say fold.

congratulations on getting lucky.