You are full of it, I call.

[bluefeet]

"...no read"

How many times do you see someone go bust 1st/2nd hand of a tourney under these exact conditions - having 'less than the nut'...hoping the other guy has even less? I swear this happens on 30% of the time. More often than not 'he' lucked into AA or KK early. It's so easy to say 'buuuuulsh&t!" when someone makes an aggressive hand early. Don't forget - the randomizer doesn't care if it's hand #1 or hand#50...you can't assume someone is trying to take ownership of the table with an early move like this.

1) You have no 'read' on this player.
2) You're into the pot T65
3) You missed your set
4) There is an over on the board

...I certainly don't mind the bet on the flop. 1/3 of the pot is perfect to see where you stand and remove anyone that missed. But with the reraise from the original raiser???....it's time to fold.

[tjh]

[ QUOTE ]

Things i considered,

-Small raise pre-flop
-Why he checked the flop
-Why he check-raised the flop
-Why he check-raised to that amount
-Why he pushed the turn.


[/ QUOTE ]

Small raise preflop

I suppose because he had KJ AJ or and was out of position with one caller behind him already. The little raise was to keep the Blinds from playing for free and to prevent other limpers. Also because UTG is playing a hand out of position he may worry about his holding. Perhaps a minraise to establish dominance and/or to elicit any further aggression from UTG.

He checked the flop because he connected with the flop and having bad position he decided to wait for any aggressive players to bet out so he could check raise.

He pushed the turn because a pot sized bet equalled the rest of his stack.

The two diamonds theory does have merit and perhaps he bet the turn to discourage the club flush draw. ALthough this is plausible it is also plausible that he had a very good hand on the flop and once he got enough money in there by check-raising the flop he just wanted to shut down the action on the turn.

[Elektrik]

Zebra,

The problem I have with this hand is that you don't have enough information IMO to really know his hand, much less get all your chips in there.

His PF is normal from what I've seen (I'm not sure why you think it's small), and of course you call. Given that you have no reads, it could mean anything, we don't know. I'd bet the flop as well, but once he raises you with what again is a normal sized raise IMO, you're in a tough spot - while he may be bluffing, you also may be drawing to a two outer to something like his KJ+ or QQ+, and you're going to have to go to the felt to find out. IMO, it's not worth the risk this early in the tourney.

Yes, you're going to catch him bluffing some percentage of the time. But is it often enough to put your stack on the line? I would guess not.

[shejk]

I rather believe he missed if he bet out on the flop.

[shefhammer]

What was the purpose of your flop bet?

I think it is way too small to get any info from his raise. Your bet looks so weak that a good player would often raise with nothing. If he has something then he has to raise as well. Because you bet so little you have no idea from his play whether he a hand, no hand or something in between.

[KingDan]

Am I the only one who wants to muck this preflop?

[valenzuela]

[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one who wants to muck this preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]
No im with you, I even muck JJ here. Its too hard to figure where you are after the flop with tens and jacks unless you flop a set, I only play 4 hands in this position..the good ol big 4(AA,KK,QQ,AK)

[pokerlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
No im with you, I even muck JJ here.

[/ QUOTE ]

really? I think that 10s is a fine hand to call with here, albeit not necessarily every time, but that t65 raise is small. I would call and bet out the J x x flop to 2/3rds or so (however, I have been on UB for a few months, so my understanding of Party's play is a little outdated, so i guess a muck is fine due to t800 starting).

As to if he was bluffing or not, the problem I have w Zeb's play is that he never reraised the villian; and the villian showed aggression everytime he had the chance (checkraising he flop is aggressive in my book, though it doesn't necessarily mean he has anything). Therefore, I can't really tell if he is bluffing or not. Did you consider reraising pre-flop? what about pushing on the flop? if he is bluffing, those moves could get him to muck...

[valenzuela]

I even muck in the 11s , I absolutely hate , hate JJ. This is the poker food chain AA>KK>QQ>JJ, as you see JJ is what makes the chain so succesful when U go to the flop 2handed with JJ chances are KK will take your money. I suck at postflop play so I fold JJ because I cant play it if you can and u can get away from it play JJ.

[ZebraAss]

Just to make it clear, What I did is not the "normal" choice of action I take in this situation. I easily fold an over pair even if an over card doesn’t hit. It's just that in this particular situation I truly, honestly, thought he had nothing.

-Preflop-

He raised to 65 at 10/15 from Early Position.

-Jack high flop-

First to act checks...

-Bets from 1/2 to 2/3 of the pot with 2 over cards or a Jack
-Bets half the pot with JJ.
-Bets the pot with an over pair because of flush draw.

NOTE: No where do I see checking as an option because of position and he was the original raiser.

-Last to act bets 1/3 pot-

-JJ or AA Hmmm. Now first to act folds so I don’t have to worry about keeping anyone in the hand, lets raise this sucker. [I am not raising to 225 here(175 more) I don’t know if anyone else thinks this way but the size/amount of the chips stack that is shown in the screen makes a different mentally to some people. (175 oh wow that’s a lot of chips I cant call that, 150 that’s nothing, I can call that.) I would raise to 275 if I was going to check raise the flop.]
-He bet small, lets raise him because I think he either has an under pair or weak Queen kicker with his jacks.
-I still have a chance to win this pot with AK even if he calls.
-I have a flush draw and 2 over cards I am going to raise this monster to get some chips in that pot

NOTE: I mean seriously, It was like I bet opp. folds he RAISES. Not a moment went by between the other guy folding and him raising. I guess he might be trying to intimidate me or something or something or something.

-Turn-

-If I check and then he checks I will lose a bet
-If I bet small and he doesn’t like his hand any more I will lose chips
-If I can make him think I am bluffing by betting a lot or going all in he might call with a weaker hand then normal.
-Man he called my check-raise! Mother XXXXer! Well crap, I know! I will go all in as fast as I can so it looks like I have a strong hand.


What I thought he was thinking.

-Preflop-

-I have a strong hand, I will raise.

-Flop-

UTG checks…

-If I check here I can check raise if MP2 bets and UTG folds.
-If I bet here and someone calls I will have to bet the turn or he will be able to either take the pot or get a free card that I don’t want him to have.
-If MP2 checks after me I can bet the turn provided that UTG checks to me. This could look like an over pair or it could even just get the other 2 off their hand. So there might be a better chance of them folding if I bet the turn instead of the flop.
-If I check, MP2 bets relatively small and UTG folds I can quickly check raise to make it look like I have a strong hand and I want to take down the pot right now.

-Turn-

-He called my check raise so I have to go all in or I have no chance getting him to fold.

PS: I don’t know if a word of this makes since, if not I am sorry for waiting your time. I didn’t sleep last night. Doh! That’s what I forgot to do.