Bunky's hand of the day. AA against a solid player.

[krishanleong]

I hate it. A lot.

What happens on the turn if Villian has AK? I think AK is a very real hand for a TAG to hand. He'll certainly check behind on the turn. Maybe call a bet, and maybe fold.

If he has an overpair I think your line is also really bad. A CR is not optimum against an agressive player. It's still viewed as a really strong move and you won't extract the max from an overpair weaker than aces. You also should get involved on the flop. You are just missing bets for no reason here.

I think DrGutshot's analysis is really good. Here is his turn line.

[ QUOTE ]
I would take one of these lines:
bet-call, turn: bet-3bet (only if it bricks, and only if you know he's aggressive enough to raise a weak overpair again.

[/ QUOTE ]

Basically take any line that doesn't involve checking the turn and allowing AK to take a free card.

His analysis of the flop is also really good. Particularly, [ QUOTE ]
if he is going to call your planned turn check-raise, then you would have missed bets on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I bet-call, bet-3-bet.

This line probably get's an okay amount against AK, and a great amount against underpairs.

Krishan

[bunky9590]

[ QUOTE ]
I hate it. A lot.


[/ QUOTE ]

Cmon, now, don't hold back. tell me what you really think. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Theres two ways of playing this hand, well probably many more, but two ways that make sense.

1. Dr. G's line. Works most of the time, and works well, problem with it is if I show too much aggression on the flop on the cheap streets this cat may settle down on the expensive ones. I wanted to mik him on the big streets and milk him hard.

2. the way I played it slow on the flop lets him get stuck on the later streets. though if I go berzerko on that flop he could very well slow down feraing a set, I may be aggressive, but I'm no dummy, when I start blasting bets and raises at you, best be sure your overpair is in jeapordy.

I considered the stop and go and actually would have probably netted me the same, maybe less. Cause if I stop na dgo the turn and proceed to three bet, he just calls the river, with the way I played it I got him for three bets on the river drawing to 2 outs.

So, in short, I gave up some equity on the flop bets to make more on the later streets. I didn't want to give him too much info by getting aggressive on the flop when he will find out later in the hand that is is in fact. Way effing behind.

[bunky9590]

[ QUOTE ]
Since there has been so much preflop aggression shown, I think checkraising the flop is a reaonable line, especially if you think he'd 3-bet you (so you can set up a turn checkraise).

But if you think he'd slow down on the flop after getting checkraised, I think a turn checkraise is just fine.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm quite sure I don't get as much out of him on the expensive streets if I give him TMI on the flop. The beautiful part about it is HE capped PF and I didn't so it really keeps my hand a mystery.

I intentional gave up some bets on the flop to get him for bigger bets on the turn and river. I knew this was one hand whether you either loved it or hated it.

[ QUOTE ]
The river 3-bet is beautiful, I must say.


[/ QUOTE ]

Set up by earlier streets and, yeah It did rock. Thanks.

[bunky9590]

It probably works out the same way $$ wise G, your line and my line. If I bet three bet the turn, I doubt a solid player caps me back there, and I dobt I get him for multiple bets on the river. Always a possibility, But I really felt strongly about this line at the time, and it seems to have worked out very well.

I do like your line much better against a Party donk, and if he had been I pump this hand for all its worth. Against someone with a few brain cells that actually work, I think I milked the max or darn close to it.

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
So, in short, I gave up some equity on the flop bets to make more on the later streets.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this should read you got lucky and your opponent had KK. Think about your line if he has AK. It's hard to go wrong when you have a monster slightly better than your opponents monster. The idea is to make the most money given a range of hands your opponent might have. I just don't think any line that starts out check-call, check does this.

[ QUOTE ]
So, in short, I gave up some equity on the flop bets to make more on the later streets.

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand why you did what you did. Put your opponet on a pair now. If you lead, will he automatically put you on aces and clam up with his KK? I'm not saying you should 3-bet the flop or cr the flop (both moves are way too strong). I'm advocating a simple bet-call because I think that disguises your hand adequately. And sets you up nicely for big streets.

Krishan

[bunky9590]

[ QUOTE ]
I think this should read you got lucky and your opponent had KK.

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW I put him squarely on KK or QQ, he didn't cap AK previously. I may have missed a small bet on the flop. but I sure maximized the big streets

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think this should read you got lucky and your opponent had KK.

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW I put him squarely on KK or QQ, he didn't cap AK previously. I may have missed a small bet on the flop. but I sure maximized the big streets

[/ QUOTE ]

It's important to know when you put him on KK or QQ. If you can rule out AK as a hand, your line is less bad since there is little chance of him checking behind on the turn. Getting past the flop bet, I think a turn lead is still much much better.

Turn lead (I don't know if he could have TT here)

KK - you win 3 bets. 1-3 on river (1.8 avg)
QQ - you win 3 bets. 1-3 on river (1.3 avg)
JJ - 2.8 bets on turn. 1 on river
TT - 2.8 bets on turn. 1 on river

Average 4.175

Check raising the turn

KK - you win 2 bets. 1-3 on river (2.5 avg)
QQ - you win 2 bets. 1-3 on river (1.3 avg)
JJ - 2 bets on turn. 1 on river
TT - 1-2 (1.5) bets on turn. 0-1 on river (.8)

Average 3.275

The big problem is you clam up QQ-TT a good % of the time with a turn cr. KK also sometimes. Your line I think lucks out and wins the max against a good opponent when they have KK. It's not quite as good against a lower PP.

So what did he have anyway? If he's willing to make this river move with QQ your line becomes stronger also.

Feel free to contest the numbers and I can rework the analysis. If he won't cap TT preflop that changes things as well.

Krishan

[DrGutshot]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi DrGutShot,

Your lines consisting of bet-3-betting the turn are pretty optimistic especially when they're the only lines that you suggest doing.

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Kailia

[/ QUOTE ]


Hi Kailia -
I guess I didn't make it clear enough, if you thought he was smart/weak enough to smell the bet-3bet, then checkraise - unless he only called your flop checkraise - then bet.

-DrG

[kurosh]

I either call the flop and gaybet the turn or checkraise flop/cap and lead turn.

Your way turned out good this time but he won't have a big hand every time.

[DrGutshot]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So, in short, I gave up some equity on the flop bets to make more on the later streets.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this should read you got lucky and your opponent had KK. Think about your line if he has AK. It's hard to go wrong when you have a monster slightly better than your opponents monster. The idea is to make the most money given a range of hands your opponent might have. I just don't think any line that starts out check-call, check does this.

[ QUOTE ]
So, in short, I gave up some equity on the flop bets to make more on the later streets.

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand why you did what you did. Put your opponet on a pair now. If you lead, will he automatically put you on aces and clam up with his KK? I'm not saying you should 3-bet the flop or cr the flop (both moves are way too strong). I'm advocating a simple bet-call because I think that disguises your hand adequately. And sets you up nicely for big streets.

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]

this was pretty much exactly my thinking, good analysis krishan.

bunky IMO bet-calling or c/r-calling3bet the flop disguises your hand better than just check calling the flop and going nutso on the bigbet streets.

-DrG