1/2 KK

[zaxx19]

As a side note: I just got the Ciaffone and Harrington books in the mail.

Read half of Harrington and it is not suprisingly EXCELLENT.

I will be reading the Ciaffone book sometime.

Perhaps 3 betting KK is never good....Ive been wrong MANY TIMES before, unfortunately given how bad SSNLH players are I tend to think Im not wrong on this one.

[mason55]

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As a side note: I just got the Ciaffone and Harrington books in the mail.

Read half of Harrington and it is not suprisingly EXCELLENT.

I will be reading the Ciaffone book sometime.

Perhaps 3 betting KK is never good....Ive been wrong MANY TIMES before, unfortunately given how bad SSNLH players are I tend to think Im not wrong on this one.

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there are definitely times to 3bet KK preflop. i would say this is one of them

[soah]

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I dont like 3-betting KK preflop in NL, you will usually have action only by AA

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OOP it's worth revealing info about your hand to get info about your opponents in what could be a big pot.

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This makes no sense. You're out of position, building a big pot, and you don't think it's a big deal to give out information about your hand? By the same token, why not just go all-in on every hand to get information about your opponent's hand? Obviously if they call you then you're screwed and if they fold, then you're in great shape!

[mason55]

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I dont like 3-betting KK preflop in NL, you will usually have action only by AA

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OOP it's worth revealing info about your hand to get info about your opponents in what could be a big pot.

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This makes no sense. You're out of position, building a big pot, and you don't think it's a big deal to give out information about your hand? By the same token, why not just go all-in on every hand to get information about your opponent's hand? Obviously if they call you then you're screwed and if they fold, then you're in great shape!

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errr i didn't quite mean that. my fingers don't always type what my brain is thinking [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

but now i'm curious. are you saying never 3 bet KK oop?

[edge]

If by 3-bet you mean putting in the third raise, then I almost never do that. It defines my hand way too much. The only time I 3-raise preflop is against a super maniac or if I can get it all in with the third raise without overbetting too much.

[zaxx19]

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against a super maniac

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This is the SSNLH forum correct?

[mason55]

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If by 3-bet you mean putting in the third raise, then I almost never do that. It defines my hand way too much. The only time I 3-raise preflop is against a super maniac or if I can get it all in with the third raise without overbetting too much.

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so in most SSNL games you do?? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[swedeD]

I mostly play at NL25, I guess you play at higher levels. I go all-in preflop with KK a lot of times if someone reraises. Of course that depends on who my opponent is, but a lot of the players at NL25 thinks a 3-bet is provocative and an attempt to steal the pot (I can't explain their actions other than this, or maybe they are just crazy). People call with QQ, JJ, TT or KQs. One time I was all-in with three other guys, they had TT, TJs and 44. hahaha

I wouldn't do this at NL100 though, if I don't have a good read.

[TheWorstPlayer]

OK, this is a question that I have been putting off asking/thinking seriously about, but since it came up I'll ask. Unfortunately, I still don't have the time to really work this all out, but here are my preliminary thoughts on KK in this situation:

The conventional wisdom says that you should not '3-bet' (i.e. re-re-raise) preflop with KK. The reason for this is that your opponent cannot make a mistake. You are saying that you have AA/KK so he will fold QQ and worse and will call with AA. Maybe he will make a mistake with KK, but it is statistically unlikely that he also has KK and most people will find a fold with KK quite difficult in any case so it is unlikely that he will make a mistake there, either. But now here is my question against this line of thinking: how the heck can it possibly be right? If people will really only call a 3-bet preflop with AA, then you should always 3-bet when you are re-raised since even if someone only re-raises AA-QQ/AK he is still much more likely to not have AA than he is to have it. Particularly so if you have an ace in your hand.

Then there is also the empirical evidence. Is there anyone on here who cannot post hands where people playing SSNL has called all-in preflop with hands SIGNIFICANTLY worse than AA? Hands like J8s have certainly called my preflop 3-bets in the past and I expect that they will in the future, too. With position, against a good opponent, who knows I'm tight, I might try to trap by not 3-betting AA/KK preflop. But OOP, against someone who is equally likely to be a donkey as to be good, against someone who is equally likely to think I am a donkey as to think I am good, I think trying to get as much in preflop as possible is a good idea.

Comments, please?

[TrailofTears]

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The conventional wisdom says that you should not '3-bet' (i.e. re-re-raise) preflop with KK. The reason for this is that your opponent cannot make a mistake. You are saying that you have AA/KK so he will fold QQ and worse and will call with AA.

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Worst, what I am saying here is that by giving villain no chance to make a mistake, it gives hero a better chance of not making one either. In the current hand, I don't mind 3-betting, making my hand clear to villain, because it will make his hand more clear to me (perhaps not crystal, but more clear). His re-raise could mean anything from AA-QQ, AK/AKs (even less if hero has been aggressive at this table, and since he only raised 3.5xBB), but our raise means AA/KK, right?

What is wrong with giving up some information here when OOP to get some equally important info? If I am not so deepstacked, this is not as crucial, but I want to know where I stand with ~100BB behind us both.